Sor/Wiz spell list seems to be the richest to CC a really wide variety of stuff. Plus there are instakills, the ultimate CC.

Currently I have a Gnome Artificer at cap and with Color Spray, BOGW, Tactical Detonation and Prismatic Strike (and ~100 int) I can also CC a decent variety of enemies. Nice thing about it is that one doesn't have to worry about spell penetration.

In comparison, bards have soundburst, BOGW and enchantment spells, leaving many enemies uncontrollable.

I don't have first-hand experience with recent divine/druid development.

mine roughly

undead wizards obviously have survivability problems in r10 but in r5-7 they are amazing IMO. The undead healing items that have come out are very nice.

Honestly if you can hit the DCs on a sorc or wiz you may wanna just aim at hitpoints and PRR. Ender set or Unyielding sentinel. It's all about targeting a mob's weak saves anyway. If you're not sure on mob saves then roll a fleshy wizard first and learn.

Typically all mobs have one strong save, one weak save, and one medium save. The exceptions to this are paladin types or certain shamans that have high fort AND will (think lizardmen or orcs).

Don't pass on glitterdust. The spellbook on that sorc is worth thinking about.

FvS get an honorable mention atm. Soundburst (fort) + Greater Command (will) + Cometfall (reflex) combined with good instakills is solid. Wizards and Sorcs don't have good reflex save CC. This can be problematic occasionally. (Web is too short in high skulls, but you end up using it anway.) Warlocks can use tentacles.

20 levels of one class is NOT a build.

Definitely is an option, I don't have the luxury of having lots of SP pots to quaff when my SPs run out.  Are clerics SP friendly at r5+ , is FVS a viable choice.  To be honest I've only seen Devines run as healers at high reaper content.

Deltabravo wrote on Aug 10^th, 2018 at 6:06pm:


Yugo int pot has mana regen.  If you're a Wiz you're already drinking that anyway.  Anyone who has been playing for a while might be overlooking some options other than store pots: Medium dragonshards trade for a mnemonic clicky, villager comms trade for cider.  And then there are the old standbys, korthos necklace, fens necklace, and ross.  They don't give a pile of mana but any bit that helps you get to the next shrine helps.  Use them while waiting for your groupmates to come off of timer for rez.  Also some hires have divine vitality.  Summon them and park at entrance.  Call them to you to top you off and re-park so you're not raising them a dozen times per run.

I do belive its not about class but gear and playstyle. Anything may work: bards have awesome fascinate with inane dc and can stun/charm/hold almost like wizards. Warlocs have tentacles - probably best cc spell in game, yet not making helpless. Plus disco, webs, charms, holds. Both divine and arcanes have very solid set of spells for any situation and druids with good dc earthquakes are always wellcome in any party. Yet first to roll a good spell aster you need to know mobs saves, immunities, sr. If I get a dollar every time I see random warlock trying to tentacle or fod golems I'd been fucking millioner :-D So cleric and wizard are very best to learn this role, you can always switch spells and heighten spells up to 19 will help a lot if you lacking gear a little. If you know the game well you can build any spellcasting class with good DC and rock

Rzyman wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 10:57pm:


well of course that a bard can have excellent disco, holds, and stuns. however, there's a ton of mobs that bards cannot control. no amount of DC can help you there. unfortunately epic abilities also don't seem to help bards there

Fascinate will get you and everybody else killed.
Bard Mass Hold has long cd.
Just forget bards.