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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Player Quality on various servers (Read 22849 times)
Daggertooth
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #125 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:13pm
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pinkpuff wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 12:57pm:
I'm also not saying that you personally need to step shit up. You play how you want to play and I'll always support that, always. I'm just disappointed in the lack of endgame players on Thelanis.


I think Rush said it best.. Show don't Tell.  Do it in the game... don't tell others how to do it... let the cards fall where they will.   If someone screws up... react accordingly in game..... now sadly from a realistic perspective, DDO isn't built well enough to support that in a high reaper raid.   *But*.. if more people started to play that way.. over time, it will attract more people to the level that the OP is wanting more people to play at, so in the end it could be worth considering.  Seems to me that people are too wrapped up in winning or losing rather than experiencing what the game has to offer, and that is repelling people from the end game.  Personally when I play the important thing is that as a group we were challenged and we overcame that challenge creatively... maybe someone came up with an idea that worked... for me whether we win in the end or not is pretty irrelevant (and that flies in the face of the type of end game that the OP wants)
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:15pm by Daggertooth »  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #126 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:21pm
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Plenty of us have been doing it in game long enough for others to catch on and join in if they want. And it's called endgame because, are you ready for this, it's the end of the game. A lot of us have already experienced everything there is to experience.

Challenge is good. In fact that's the entire point here. The challenge ceiling on Thelanis is incredibly low however because only a handful of people are capable.
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #127 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:33pm
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Well if there is any step in Pinkpuffs direction, raids need to first make R1 the norm.  And that is every raid.  After a little while, players will get the idea. 

I always hear things like, "let's just do LH shroud guys, because the last guy will one shot us."  That is the first hint at a player that is not ready.  Or maybe that player just remembers 1 party wipe and thinks they are all the same.

Pinks small list of so called "top tier" players just shows me that is all it is.  A small list.  There are plenty of players that can do better but get deterred over stupid shit.

I have a FvS, and he sucks.  The only thing that sucks worse is me playing him.  I'm stuck in 2012 when I play a healer and the game simply changed and I didn't.  This is a lot of end game players, resting on thier past achievement and thier past builds.  Might not make them bad, but in Pinks eyes they are just not top tier.

Either way, the only way to improve your chances of running high end raids on thelanis is either move servers or help bring up the pack that exists on thelanis.  Goodluck
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #128 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:46pm
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Well if there is any step in Pinkpuffs direction, raids need to first make R1 the norm.  And that is every raid.  After a little while, players will get the idea.  


Agree there needs to be a 100% shift .... people need to go into raids with the understanding that we will try R1.. and if it goes bad.. we'll lower it accordingly.

Every LH raid that goes up on the LFM board puts another nail in the coffin .. it just affirms an unhealthy state of the game.   Maybe all the R1+ raids are in private channels only... well so be it.   As long as people are enjoying the game... thats all that matters.   I personally will not waste my time with an LH raid.   I'll join it and suggest R1 etc and if they're in agreement then all is good.  If not I won't hang around. 
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #129 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:55pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:46pm:
Agree there needs to be a 100% shift .... people need to go into raids with the understanding that we will try R1.. and if it goes bad.. we'll lower it accordingly.

You have that 1/2 correct. You have to go into raids with the understanding that you complete R1.  And if it goes bad, everyone has to call out what went wrong, and fix or replace the weak links.  DO NOT lower it accordingly, but instead only raise it accordingly.

There is nothing wrong with wanting less, but if you join with the intent on becoming better, and get picked if you get called out for shitting the bed, then you can't get mad, upset or otherwise discouraged.  Instead, the criticism, no matter how harsh, should only be laughed as a group as everyone learns.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:57pm by »  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #130 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:02pm
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After ten years on Khyber I have partied up with too many solid players to count.

Also, (generally speaking) I've found players' performance is indirectly proportional to the amount they talk in party chat....
  

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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #131 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:05pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 1:46pm:
Agree there needs to be a 100% shift .... people need to go into raids with the understanding that we will try R1.. and if it goes bad.. we'll lower it accordingly.

Every LH raid that goes up on the LFM board puts another nail in the coffin .. it just affirms an unhealthy state of the game.   Maybe all the R1+ raids are in private channels only... well so be it.   As long as people are enjoying the game... thats all that matters.   I personally will not waste my time with an LH raid.   I'll join it and suggest R1 etc and if they're in agreement then all is good.  If not I won't hang around. 

No, fuck that defeatist shit. That's why the bad players are still bad. You take your beating and figure out why you got beat and what you need to do differently or build for moving forward. You don't just lower the bar to let the retards flop over, they'll still be retards on the other side.

But we definitely laugh at each other constantly. The raids themselves are always full of jokes and people picking at each other. The last reaper KT we failed happened at the end fight because our dragon tank decided it would be neat to pull out 2 weapons and do his best tempest impersonation. I watched his hp go from 5500 to -250 in less than a second and have laughed about it ever since. We still laugh about the asshole that popped the Potion of Wonder. But in the moment, in most of those exact moments, a lot of people are going to be unhappy to have lost an hour of their life due to a really dumb decision.

I'm not perfect. Our wannabe tempest tank that fucked us in that run could have been saved....if I as the healer would have remembered to use Death Pact. You take your knocks and move on. Crying in the corner because someone said you're wasting your time fighting armors on the stairs doesn't help anyone.
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #132 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:11pm
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pinkpuff wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:05pm:
No, fuck that defeatist shit. That's why the bad players are still bad. You take your beating and figure out why you got beat and what you need to do differently or build for moving forward. You don't just lower the bar to let the retards flop over, they'll still be retards on the other side.

But we definitely laugh at each other constantly. The raids themselves are always full of jokes and people picking at each other. The last reaper KT we failed happened at the end fight because our dragon tank decided it would be neat to pull out 2 weapons and do his best tempest impersonation. I watched his hp go from 5500 to -250 in less than a second and have laughed about it ever since. We still laugh about the asshole that popped the Potion of Wonder. But in the moment, in most of those exact moments, a lot of people are going to be unhappy to have lost an hour of their life due to a really dumb decision.

I'm not perfect. Our wannabe tempest tank that fucked us in that run could have been saved....if I as the healer would have remembered to use Death Pact. You take your knocks and move on. Crying in the corner because someone said you're wasting your time fighting armors on the stairs doesn't help anyone.

I think pinks ego is too big, and his example of endgame players is near fictional, but I agree 100% with taking your licks, going back in and trying again, and all the while laughing at yourself and everyone around you.

Wish there was a guild on Thelanis that was comprised of players like this. But i find that player egos suck so much, that bullshit drama ends up overriding the fun.  And you end up with all those wannabes that say they just want to have fun..
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #133 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:16pm
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Bawz wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 10:01am:
Well, then I read this pile of shite!  Grin - I play on Thelanis and will almost certainly have run capped raids and probably high R quests too, with you


Impressive! I imagine you must be one of those who join what we are seeing as BDE raids and then run a used pussy R1 Strahd or a mini-dick Hard KT. If you think this is what it means to be capped. No wonder Thelanis is frustrated.

Bawz wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 10:01am:
So, instead of whining like some pre-menstrual bitch in the play-ground to the bigger boys about how shit all the other pussies in the play-ground are, why not just fuck right off quietly and do everyone on Thelanis a favour?


Ahhhhhh. The irony here. Hello Thelanis.



Daggertooth wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 12:35pm:
I like playing w/ Pink.. (I assume Pinc Punch)... I'm happy to play with anyone who plays R4-6 stuff.. but again if your wanting people like me to "step it up' than it might help to tone it down a little... cause like I said I play to relax and enjoy the game.. not be subjected to a bunch of yelling and screaming over voice chat.   


He isn't Pinc.

The OP is generally right with his original post. Thelanis has some excellent players but the willingness is not there. Everyone wants to play but people can be easily satisfied or appeased with any easy completion. There is a farming mentality and not so much a challenge me mentality going on. The introduction of threads was yet another setback for quality raiding.

I think the pool of people is likely there and they may be willing to pause TRs from time to time and switch gears to get something more out of the game. People need to actually see that its possible before they are convinced. They also need to be willing to accept failures before they are able to reach their goals .

You certainly need to find a strong raid leader who knows what he is actually doing including who won't put up with people's egos by being able to put them into their place. This prevents those who refuse to lead raids but will certainly derail the raid with their "I know how to do this better.." during the raid, or worse, contradicting the raid leaders orders. With the veteran players needed to up the game, you end up with too many cooks in the kitchen and often end up with failure with those same egos blaming everyone else but themselves. You can't have that.

Until people actually begin acting like real adults rather than  just legal adults, it's not going to happen on any server.

« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 4:56pm by YouWhineyBitches »  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #134 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:17pm
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I generally don't rag people in game unless they're friends.

My concern is the Sharn raids will be much more along the lines of difficulty that KT is rather than Baba/Strahd. If that's the case then I'll do my best to pull the better players together and see what we can get done. One of the bigger issues with that though is the players that are actually capable are generally really fractured and already have their groups they run with. That's a problem when it comes to leaving people out and them having hurt feelings, sadly.
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #135 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:58pm
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pinkpuff wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:17pm:
I generally don't rag people in game unless they're friends.



And you've joined the vault because...?
  

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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #136 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 3:04pm
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Because trying to get a straight answer out of my question on plebbit or the main boards would be impossible with the sheer number of hyperfaggots lurking around. There's enough stature crying here, it would be nothing but there.

Those idiots think stealth is broken. Can pretty much stop right there.
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #137 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:14pm
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Skoodge wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 2:28am:
Side note - did you make it to the big boy guild or were you left behind in Gods?


Oh dear. I'm not sure who you think I am, but I'm definitely not whoever that is.

Unless I'm thinking of someone else, you said you were some random guy in The Hand of Death. Any chance you want to let the class know which random Hand of Death person you are so we can judge you?

Looking forward to your response!
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #138 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:20pm
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Pseudonym wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:14pm:
Oh dear. I'm not sure who you think I am, but I'm definitely not whoever that is.


So defensive Wink  Honestly I have no clue who your toons are, was just mildly curious if you're still in Gods or if you made the cut.

Actually kind of like Gods more now.  The ones left behind are (mostly) more chill and way more fun to run with.
  

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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #139 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:23pm
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Reaper raids aren't the norm on Thelanis? I can think of a half dozen people off the top of my head that regularly have LFMs up for reaper raids, and I'm certain a few more happen each night than that. Especially on weekends.
  

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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #140 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:37pm
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Skoodge wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:20pm:
So defensive Wink  Honestly I have no clue who your toons are, was just mildly curious if you're still in Gods or if you made the cut.

Actually kind of like Gods more now.  The ones left behind are (mostly) more chill and way more fun to run with. 


It's very clear that you have no clue who my characters are.

I'm sure you're right, it makes a lot of sense that you would rather run with Gamarro and Bhatata than Gordonn and Tronko.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:40pm by Pseudonym »  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #141 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:50pm
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Pseudonym wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:37pm:
Gamarro and Bhatata


No idea who they are.  Shams a fucking blast though.

Pseudonym wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:37pm:
Tronko


Tronko I like, I've grouped with him a lot.  He's a team player.

If you made the cut - rock on.  I think it's great Cannith finally has a true pro-level group. 

But if you didn't (well, especially if you didn't) drop the attitude.  It's a fucking game.  Goal is always to do anything you're doing fairly well: but the fact of the matter is if you're playing any other game that doesn't appeal to 35-60 year old demographic - there are 10 year olds out there that can play circles around you.

The only reason any of us aren't routinely getting our asses handed to us by 10 year olds is because DDO just doesn't appeal to the younger generations.
  

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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #142 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:04pm
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Skoodge wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:50pm:
I think it's great Cannith finally has a true pro-level group. 

But if you didn't (well, especially if you didn't) drop the attitude.


You say you play on Cannith, but you don't know that having an attitude is pretty much my thing?

  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #143 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:15pm
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Pseudonym wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:37pm:
It's very clear that you have no clue who my characters are.

I'm sure you're right, it makes a lot of sense that you would rather run with Gamarro and Bhatata than Gordonn and Tronko.


Long time no see Gordonn lol
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #144 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:25pm
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Pseudonym wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:04pm:
You say you play on Cannith, but you don't know that having an attitude is pretty much my thing?


Meh.  You're probably on my "too much attitude to bother grouping with" list.

I'm bored (mostly because this fucking game I downloaded won't install correctly) and I've had a few so I'll throw you a few clues.

I'm not Jasp (about the only thing I care to be clear about).

Gods have recruited a number of players from HoD: I'm the one that said no (a few offers, totally not worth checking out but a clue if you want it).

I am absolutely, totally, and completely not good enough to be in ascendent.  No where near that level.  It's cool that that is important to some people: I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm minor league at best and have no interest in putting the time in the effort into going pro.  If I can build a few toons that are productive and viable in mid to upper reapers, I'll be fine (and at times I feel a certain level of shame for diverting that much of my time into such a superficial goal: but I enjoy it).

I will gladly admit I prefer to be one of the best in a decent guild than slightly above average in a slightly above average guild (sorry, even before the split the mass of Gods were overrated).

But here's what I contribute to the game and what I achieve.

I give muckbanes to newbs who have just discovered the game.

I provide GS ings and collectables to our solid, newer players so they can be a little more viable.

I give decent build advice to people that have been playing for a few months or under a year.

I spend way more fucking time than I'd like on Crafting tutorials so the new players can suck slightly less and enjoy the game more.

Collectables, augs, stacks and stacks of essences, you name it and I hand it out in hopes these people will play, enjoy and contribute something more to the game than just a soulstone.

I'm happy where I am.  I'm making the game suck a little less for both the new players and the older players that have to play with them.

If you're happy in a "pro" level guild where you slap each other on the asses and brag about how awesome you all are: rock on.

If you want to look down on me for not joining you: see my tagline.

Whatever.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:25pm by Skoodge »  

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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #145 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:26pm
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All I know is that this shit talking about my boy The D better stop!
  

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I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #146 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:35pm
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Skoodge wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:25pm:
I provide GS ings and collectables to our solid, newer players so they can be a little more viable.

I give decent build advice to people that have been playing for a few months or under a year.

I spend way more fucking time than I'd like on Crafting tutorials so the new players can suck slightly less and enjoy the game more.

Collectables, augs, stacks and stacks of essences, you name it and I hand it out in hopes these people will play, enjoy and contribute something more to the game than just a soulstone.

I'm happy where I am.  I'm making the game suck a little less for both the new players and the older players that have to play with them.


I've been hit up a few times by unguilded first-lifers for trading GS ing. They were ecstatic when I gave them stacks of each.
  

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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #147 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:01pm
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ThreadNecromancer wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:23pm:
Reaper raids aren't the norm on Thelanis? I can think of a half dozen people off the top of my head that regularly have LFMs up for reaper raids, and I'm certain a few more happen each night than that. Especially on weekends.

There are 3 people that lead reaper raids on Thelanis. And we all run together anyways.

So no. Thelanis is the server you go to if you want to feel good about yourself.
  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #148 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:01pm
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Skoodge wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:25pm:
Meh.  You're probably on my "too much attitude to bother grouping with" list.


Probably!

Quote:
I am absolutely, totally, and completely not good enough to be in ascendent.  No where near that level. 


That's fine! There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a casual player, everyone should play DDO in whatever way works for them with very few exceptions.

The problems start when casual players
a) decide to hand out advice without making it clear that the advice is coming from a casual player directed towards other casual players - an easy example of that sort of advice would be "play warlock to easily complete quests". Good advice for a new player who wants to be a casual, terrible advice for someone who wants to learn how to contribute in the endgame scene.
b) attempt to bully the developers into catering for them. There's a large subset of casual players in DDO who feel entitled to everything that DDO has to offer without having to put in any effort. They're the type of people who complain that content is too difficult, past lives should be even easier to get, and reaper points take too much time to acquire.
c) attempt to join groups where they cannot contribute and either get rejected and whine or get accepted and pike (whether or not they understand that's what they're doing)

Quote:
But here's what I contribute to the game and what I achieve.

I give muckbanes to newbs who have just discovered the game.

I provide GS ings and collectables to our solid, newer players so they can be a little more viable.

I give decent build advice to people that have been playing for a few months or under a year.

I spend way more fucking time than I'd like on Crafting tutorials so the new players can suck slightly less and enjoy the game more.

Collectables, augs, stacks and stacks of essences, you name it and I hand it out in hopes these people will play, enjoy and contribute something more to the game than just a soulstone.


That's fantastic. Having people like you to help out the completely clueless new players is just as important as having serious players to help other serious players improve. DDO is an old game with a steep learning curve, and new player retention will be the biggest factor determining how long the servers stay up (yes, I understand how ironic it is that I'm talking about the servers being up during a 3 day downtime. Lol).


Quote:
If you're happy in a "pro" level guild where you slap each other on the asses and brag about how awesome you all are: rock on.


It isn't about bragging, it's about how we enjoy playing the game.

Quote:
If you want to look down on me for not joining you: see my tagline.


Ascendance isn't for everyone. That's okay!

As long as we can agree that the stuff I listed earlier aren't things that should be happening, you're cool as far as we're concerned.


  
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Re: Player Quality on various servers
Reply #149 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:22pm
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Pseudonym wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:01pm:
c) attempt to join groups where they cannot contribute and either get rejected and whine or get accepted and pike (whether or not they understand that's what they're doing)


Oh trust me, I stay out of your R10 groups Wink  Unless it's a buddy weekend and hundreadth has a group up where he'll tolerate a soul stone because it's win win for both parties - I do my best to stick to my skill sets.

R1-R3 I'm super forgiving.  1st life shit alt toon?  Sure, jump in and rack up some reaper points.  I'm basically soloing it anyways.  I don't need help and I've only opened the group up for others that can't pull it off on their own.

Trying to rack up some reaper points on R5-R7 though?  Then I have to kind of bite my tongue to not be a complete douche: "You really think your shitty 1st life toon belongs in this group?"

Pseudonym wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:01pm:
"play warlock to easily complete quests". Good advice for a new player who wants to be a casual, terrible advice for someone who wants to learn how to contribute in the endgame scene.


Man...that's good advice compared to what I'm fighting in the trenches.  You seriously have no idea.

Relatively new player giving advice to totally new player: "gear doesn't matter, I'm still wearing heroic gear in epics."

Me: "FUCK NO!  You shouldn't even be taking your 1st life toon into epics - TR a few times and get a lives under your belt and a better feel for the game: you'll have more fun and piss less people off.  But if you're going to go into epics with a toon with no past lives or epic past lives - gear is everything to DC, spell penn and to get your crits.  Take your choice: either TR and I'll jump into DA to pass to you or take this stack of essences and get your crafting levels up."

For what it's worth, we're not the Tycoons.  The core members of HoD bend over backwards trying to train the new players we recruit.  We give advice, we organize raids and try to teach them, we suggest good named items and help them farm them, anything and everything it takes to try and get them up to speed.

TBH, I cringe when some of our new players join my groups: but I promise you as much effort as possible has been put into try to help these guys over that incredibly steep learning curve that is DDO.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:22pm by Skoodge »  

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