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Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? (Read 4947 times)

ManyCookies Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 360 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2018	Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Apr 22^nd, 2019 at 6:03pm	Print Post
	Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, vul, dust, etc? Tried asking in game, got lots of vauge and contradicting replies. Some people said it doesn't, some said it does but isn't displayed correctly, etc...


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Dickbutt Titan Demolisher Offline Richard Butkus Posts: 386 Joined: Aug 18^th, 2011	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #1 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 8:23am	Print Post
	The second group of people were correct. Test with a masterwork shuriken in epic defensive fighting.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #2 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:52am	Print Post
	It does not scale with anything aside your MP/RP. The below was in r1 against Abishai inside of Grim quest, using Flow + LGS Dust. The sneak values are in orange after the base number. Critical and Grazing damage are in Yellow for reduced damage, as I did not break DR in order to test sneak damage bypassing DR and working on Grazing. I have infinite screenshots of dps times and not one of them shows increased sneak damage on Dusted/Vacuumed targets.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Dickbutt Titan Demolisher Offline Richard Butkus Posts: 386 Joined: Aug 18^th, 2011	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #3 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 10:45am	Print Post
	Your screenshots don't show increased sneak attack damage because you don't know where to look.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #4 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 11:09am	Print Post
	Dickbutt wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 10:45am: Your screenshots don't show increased sneak attack damage because you don't know where to look. The sneak damage is the second number on the line of damage. That never changes unless the MP/RP increases and it never, ever, not even once in its life turns into vulnerable damage colors...

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #5 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 11:29am	Print Post
	Shadowdancer to proc sneak immunity bypass. Using Celestias here to display base sneak damage. Do not believe the combat log. It is wrong. It misleadingly combines the base + sneak to give that number. If you use individual damage lines like the ones showed above ; then you can clearly see what your sneak damage is doing every single time on every single hit. Same set up as before except this time target is debuffed by Vacuum and Dust. You're welcome, Dick. Now you know where to look and how sneak damage works.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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ManyCookies Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 360 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2018	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #6 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:22pm	Print Post
	I think one guy told me that the extra SA damage from helpless is added to the first number (which is normally your base damage) and not the second number (for SA). Did you notice anything like that? So lets say your normal damage is 500 base and 250 SA, and you have 100% more helpless damage, it shows as 1250 normal + 250 SA instead of 1000 normal and 500 SA.


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ManyCookies Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 360 Joined: Nov 16^th, 2018	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #7 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:22pm	Print Post
	Dickbutt wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 8:23am: The second group of people were correct. Test with a masterwork shuriken in epic defensive fighting. Tried to test on the ship but couldn't bypass sneak immunity as i'm not a rogue atm.


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #8 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:48pm	Print Post
	Extra SA from helpless adds to the first number. I haven't tested -PRR...but if it does add, I would expect it to add to the first number.

	Build links Endgame Gear Guide Cannith Crafting Planner link Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
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Dickbutt Titan Demolisher Offline Richard Butkus Posts: 386 Joined: Aug 18^th, 2011	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #9 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 5:09pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:48pm: Extra SA from helpless adds to the first number. I haven't tested -PRR...but if it does add, I would expect it to add to the first number. Correct. The most reliable way to test is to get your sneak attack damage as high as possible, equip a scroll, and graze whatever you're testing on.


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Vaultrunner Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 14 Location: The basement Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2019 Gender:	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #10 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 5:34pm	Print Post
	I have been playing DDO with breaks since the ancient times. I have never ever heard Sneak attack scaling with anytihng other than Melee power.
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:35pm by Vaultrunner »

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #11 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 6:49pm	Print Post
	ManyCookies wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:22pm: Tried to test on the ship but couldn't bypass sneak immunity as i'm not a rogue atm. Swap to shadowdancer and then test. 20 rolls sneak bypass. from the wiki ; Sneak attack damage The Sneak Attack Damage can not critically hit and is unaffected by Vulnerability and additional damage against helpless monsters. Since Update 25 Patch 2 Sneak Attack Damage now scales with 150% Melee or Ranged Power.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5947 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #12 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:09pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 3:48pm: Extra SA from helpless adds to the first number. I haven't tested -PRR...but if it does add, I would expect it to add to the first number. I agree. I have data to back it up. (100 swings with a teleport rod with helpless and without helpless) It's on that one google doc somewhere.
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:10pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »
	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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Vaultrunner Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 14 Location: The basement Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2019 Gender:	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #13 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:37pm	Print Post
	I question the reliability of spammable Ranged sneak attacks on live action� (the crosshair issue) even if the rule book speaks of it works on any unmobile target. Not trying to be an ass btw. Just simply pointing out the issues about ranged sneak attacks on live action.
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:38pm by Vaultrunner »

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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5947 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #14 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:41pm	Print Post
	Vaultrunner wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:37pm: I question the reliability of spammable Ranged sneak attacks on live action� (the crosshair issue) even if the rule book speaks of it works on any unmobile target. Not trying to be an ass btw. Just simply pointing out the issues about ranged sneak attacks on live action. Nice sock KNN. Gonna jerk off into it as usual?

	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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Vaultrunner Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 14 Location: The basement Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2019 Gender:	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #15 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:49pm	Print Post
	Hey there. I wasnt trolling about ranged sneak attacks and crosshair issue. I know nothing of sock and KNN. I am an old timer player who is new to Vault. Nice to meet you all.
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:49pm by Vaultrunner »

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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #16 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:16pm	Print Post
	True sock masters use manyshot.

	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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acidpickachu Waterworks Kobold Offline drugs not hugs Posts: 152 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2018	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #17 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:24pm	Print Post
	Rip. People figured it out. fwiw, i can confirm prr debuff, vuln, rebuke, and helplessness all affect SA dmg so you guys can save yourselves the time of trying to test it. Fuck you OP, gg rogues, ill expect our ass fucking from ssg in roughly 3 months time.


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Afunkymunky Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10 Joined: Mar 3^rd, 2018	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #18 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:36pm	Print Post
	WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:09pm: I agree. I have data to back it up. (100 swings with a teleport rod with helpless and without helpless) It's on that one google doc somewhere. The test you performed for that google doc was flawed. After reading that post Anointed tested this issue himself and found that SA actually is affected by all debuffs. The reason that so many people believe it isn't is because they have no idea where to look for the damage increase.


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Vaultrunner Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 14 Location: The basement Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2019 Gender:	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #19 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:39pm	Print Post
	acidpickachu wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:24pm: Rip. People figured it out. fwiw, i can confirm prr debuff, vuln, rebuke, and helplessness all affect SA dmg so you guys can save yourselves the time of trying to test it. Fuck you OP, gg rogues, ill expect our ass fucking from ssg in roughly 3 months time. Is that a new sort of glitch/bug abuse then ? Also does that somehow bypass 'First shot to allways miss' Ranged crosshair issue that was never fixed and continiued throughout years. Since my return after long years of break, I experienced the same issue at Mechanic crossbow and Deepwood stalker bow builds to say the least.
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:41pm by Vaultrunner »

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #20 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:40pm	Print Post
	WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 7:09pm: I agree. I have data to back it up. (100 swings with a teleport rod with helpless and without helpless) It's on that one google doc somewhere. The google docs shows the sneak damage adding to first number but no scaling? It looked like SA + Helpless was 16 damage extra. Same result you got with Non-helpless and sneak attack damage? Or I read the reaper doc wrong. link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LYNOnWMoHLJ3PybGYpw6EJlnfN9N6cLpAV_HjqGB _gQ/edit#gid=1997049164 I tried a quick test in WPM ee today. First orange boss fight. Scroll and empty offhand, no buffs/boosts at all. Silent set + Ship buff for 70% helpless total. Sneak damage NOT HELPLESS basic attacks NOT HELPLESS Basic attack and Sneak on HELPLESS The 3rd pic shows the damage from sneak + front number in the combat log as one total. Take the 226 front and 188 sneak damage line. In the combat log it reads as 414. 70% of 188 would be 131. Which would explain why the front number is that high at 226 compared to the other 2 swings at 112~. But it could also just be high rolls on standard dice, because the other swings are not giving 70% of my sneak damage to my front numbers.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Vaultrunner Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 14 Location: The basement Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2019 Gender:	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #21 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:44pm	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:40pm: The google docs shows the sneak damage adding to first number but no scaling? It looked like SA + Helpless was 16 damage extra. Same result you got with Non-helpless and sneak attack damage? Or I read the reaper doc wrong.� link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LYNOnWMoHLJ3PybGYpw6EJlnfN9N6cLpAV_HjqGB _gQ/edit#gid=1997049164 I tried a quick test in WPM ee today. First orange boss fight. Scroll and empty offhand, no buffs/boosts at all. Silent set + Ship buff for 70% helpless total. Sneak damage NOT HELPLESS https://i.imgur.com/yJoEN8S.png basic attacks NOT HELPLESS https://i.imgur.com/k0bIu70.png Basic attack and Sneak on HELPLESS https://i.imgur.com/b8sTyKK.jpg The 3rd pic shows the damage from sneak + front number in the combat log as one total. Take the 226 front and 188 sneak damage line. In the combat log it reads as 414. 70% of 188 would be 131. Which would explain why the front number is that high at 226 compared to the other 2 swings at 112~. But it could also just be high rolls on standard dice, because the other swings are not giving 70% of my sneak damage to my front numbers. Nice information there. Thanks.


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acidpickachu Waterworks Kobold Offline drugs not hugs Posts: 152 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2018	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #22 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 10:02pm	Print Post
	Nah. Not sploity in any way. Just strong.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #23 - Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 11:58pm	Print Post
	Afunkymunky wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 9:36pm: The test you performed for that google doc was flawed. After reading that post Anointed tested this issue himself and found that SA actually is affected by all debuffs.� The reason that so many people believe it isn't is because they have no idea where to look for the damage increase. I think I got it. The damage lines on my screenshot showing the 220+ front number is on a helpless hit. The 110s were on grazing helpless hits. Since my base non-grazing and non-helpless hit was in the 60s, scaled for 70% helpless pushes that to around 110 on helpless full hits. Which is what the rolls were at for grazing on helpless, and there is no other way to explain that increase on the grazing hits aside sneak scaling it by the additional helpless damage generated off the sneak damage base value. Basically sneak attack helpless damage adds to the front number damage on all hits, grazing or non-grazing, as long as the target is helpless. The base sneak attack damage never fluctuates. Assuming this is the same for prr and vulnerability-like debuffs. Thanks!
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2019 at 11:59pm by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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acidpickachu Waterworks Kobold Offline drugs not hugs Posts: 152 Joined: Feb 17^th, 2018	Re: Does sneak attack damage scale with helpless, etc? Reply #24 - Apr 24^th, 2019 at 12:23am	Print Post
	Rogues are the real victim here. Nerf warlocks plz and ty


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