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Rubbinns
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Blackrazor VS Tail
Jun 25th, 2019 at 7:28pm
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There seems to be a lot of people espousing Tail as superior to Blackrazor on wolves. Tail beats out Razor without any stacks.

Some quick math here using baselines of :

200 mp
200 base damage
20 seeker
barb x2 crit multi

tail
15-18 x4, 19-20 x 7
7.5 2d4+4 = 67.5
+ 15 = 82.5
+ 200 base = 282.5
847.5 base hits mp adjusted
+ 20 seeker
3630 15-18 mp adjusted
6352.5 19-20 mp adjusted
1912.125 total average damage

razor
17-18 x4, 19-20 x7
7 2d6+6 = 91
+15 = 106
+ 200 base = 306
918 base mp adjusted hits
3912 17-18 mp adjusted
6846 19-20 mp adjusted
1764.3 total avg


Razor might beat out Tail if base damage value was lower. Say, 150 instead of the 200 used here.
« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2019 at 7:28pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #1 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 12:02am
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So, Tail of the Scorpion on trash and Torn on bosses?
  

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Rubbinns
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #2 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 7:49am
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Tail would be higher on a boss, if that boss is debuffed already. Torn is behind both. Ran another quick calculation this time using higher base damage dice to reflect more of an in-game weapon dice profile. Which puts Tail slightly ahead still. IDK how much weapon dice would be needed for Razor to breach. Probably another 3 or 4? It's not something we have access to anyway, so mathing it isn't needed as of yet.

Razor
11.75[2d6+6] 152.75
+ 15 =167.75
+ 200 base damage 367.75
x 200 mp modifier = 1103.25
+ 20 seeker 387.75
mp adjusted 1163.25
17-18 = 4653
19-20 = 8142.75
total avg damage 2107.0125

Tail
12.25[2d4+4] 110.25
+ 15 125.25
+ 200 base 325.25
x 200 mp 975.75
+ 20 seeker 345.25
15-18 4143
19-20 7250.25
total avg damage 2187.8625

And against trash, if there aren't issues maintaining Razor stacks, then Razor wins out handily. 20 mp and 20 raw not adjusted damage is kind of large.
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2019 at 7:56am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #3 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 8:00am
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Where does Tremor sit?
  

Smrti wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 3:00pm:
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #4 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:26am
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200 is not realistic.

Even with 30 deadly + 3 Monk PLs + 3 arcane EPLs + 5 Advancing Blows, you'd need...156 str to hit 150 base damage or 222 str to hit 200 base damage.

With Divine Might you can probably hit...130 str? If you go with KtA or DI instead of DM you are worse off because the bonus damage doesn't get the x1.5 two-hander scaling like the bonus str does.

Tail is good for DR breaking though.
  

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Rubbinns
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #5 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:48am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:26am:
200 is not realistic.

Even with 30 deadly + 3 Monk PLs + 3 arcane EPLs + 5 Advancing Blows, you'd need...156 str to hit 150 base damage or 222 str to hit 200 base damage.

Wolves are getting over 200 on inventory details screen, which doesn't take into account the weapon's base damage. So 200 is possible on maxed builds in-game right now. I can get screenshots from symb and teth later if you need evidence. My shitty low life/low reaper ap tempest is getting close to 100 in reaper fully buffed. Wolves get that whole 1.5 thing going for them and easily eclipse my low 90s Dex.


Tremor vs Starcarver. Carver being slightly ahead of Torn due to .5 Weapon Dice.

Starcarver 10.25 dice 1d12 + 6. 18 x 6, 19-20 x 9
131.25 base avg
+15 = 146.25
+ 200 base = 346.25
346.25 x 200 mp = 1038.75
Seeker + 20 = 366.25
18. = 6 x 1098.75 = 6592.5
19-20 = 9888.75
total = 2149.5

Tremor 11.75 1d10 + 6. 15-18 x5, 19-20 x8
135.125 base avg hit
+ 15 = 150.125
+200 base = 350.125
200 mp = 1050.375 avg adjusted base hit
+ 20 seeker 370.125
15-18 x5 = 5551.875
19-20 x8 = 8883
total avg damage 2681.41875


TL;DR Tremor is fucking retarded. Tail is surprisingly good. And Starcarver actually manages to edge out razor and fall slightly behind Tail.

  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #6 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:59am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:48am:
Wolves are getting over 200 on inventory details screen, which doesn't take into account the weapon's base damage. So 200 is possible on maxed builds in-game right now.


PM me the exploit?
  

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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #7 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 11:28am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:59am:
PM me the exploit?

No idea how. It seems to be a rather huge unlisted damage bonus coming from somewhere.

Anything else relevant would also show up there, except for KtA. I tested : Deadly, Ram's Might, Prowess potions, filigree bonuses and class ap bonuses. So far all of them show up there.

Here is Tronko on his paladin getting like 185 damage in reaper



Ok, so the Inventory details screen shows every thing but the weapon base dice. I tested using basic +1 scimitars from House D shop.



Broken down into :

4 reaper cores.
35 dex
24 deadly
+4 enchantment on +1 weapon ( 2 arborea, 1 harper )
7 tempest tree

= +74 total

Which checks out with the screenshot at 74.

« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2019 at 11:57am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #8 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 12:25pm
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Does anyone with a 200ish damage modifier screenshot have a full build posted?
  

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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #9 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 1:09pm
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Not saying it's apples to apples.. but most folks I know would rather use SoulRazor, also dualing with either another Razor or a Whelm
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2019 at 1:11pm by ZooperDooper »  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #10 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 1:15pm
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ZooperDooper wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 1:09pm:
Not saying it's apples to apples.. but most folks I know would rather use SoulRazor, also dualing with either another Razor or a Whelm

You're in a THF thread, fam
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #11 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 2:11pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
You're in a THF thread, fam



Oh, I know.. it just seems lots of folks are irritated by the lack of 'all in one' weapon application and are turning to TWF for that
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #12 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 2:21pm
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131 on handwraps, but they dont get the 1.5 modifier. 200 seems viable.
  

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majmalphunktion wrote on Mar 20th, 2014 at 6:11pm:
what the fuck guys...

Jeesus fucking shit. This shit gets me called to the principals office.

Assholes.
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #13 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 5:49pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 11:28am:
No idea how. It seems to be a rather huge unlisted damage bonus coming from somewhere.

Anything else relevant would also show up there, except for KtA. I tested : Deadly, Ram's Might, Prowess potions, filigree bonuses and class ap bonuses. So far all of them show up there.

Here is Tronko on his paladin getting like 185 damage in reaper
https://i.imgur.com/dvjeLnE.png


Ok, so the Inventory details screen shows every thing but the weapon base dice. I tested using basic +1 scimitars from House D shop.

https://i.imgur.com/b4jmslO.png

Broken down into :

4 reaper cores.
35 dex
24 deadly
+4 enchantment on +1 weapon ( 2 arborea, 1 harper )
7 tempest tree

= +74 total

Which checks out with the screenshot at 74.



Animal form gets double Enhancement Bonus for weapon from several sources, for example: magic fang etc.
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #14 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:54pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 12:25pm:
Does anyone with a 200ish damage modifier screenshot have a full build posted?




My wolf build with self and ship buffs. No pots, nothing fancy. Standard Silvanus wolf.
« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:56pm by Gunga »  

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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #15 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 4:00am
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Tail and Vulkoor are insanely strong weapons and i am currently using flow+vulkoor on my tempest and doing insane dps with them
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #16 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 4:03am
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ZooperDooper wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 1:09pm:
Not saying it's apples to apples.. but most folks I know would rather use SoulRazor, also dualing with either another Razor or a Whelm

Well your friends are retarded because flow + nightshard/vulkoors edge are better weapons and miles ahead
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #17 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 1:47pm
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yardarm_ wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 4:00am:
Tail and Vulkoor are insanely strong weapons and i am currently using flow+vulkoor on my tempest and doing insane dps with them


I'd argue that's more of flow doing work than Vulkoor. I'm a scimitar fanboy and while it's arguably one of the better scimitars. I'd put my money on Fractured Elegance for best DPS scimmy.
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #18 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 3:27pm
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Edrein wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 1:47pm:
I'd put my money on Fractured Elegance for best DPS scimmy.

Not sure I'd make that bet that if I were you. It just doesn't look all that impressive unless the Glass Shards property adds a lot more DPS than I am guessing.

https://ddocompendium.com/w/The_Fractured_Elegance_(Complete)


I think I'd still favor Vulkoor's Edge as the best scimmy.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Vulkoor%27s_Edge

« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2019 at 3:30pm by Technomage »  

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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #19 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 3:33pm
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Technomage wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 3:27pm:
Not sure I'd make that bet that if I were you. It just doesn't look all that impressive unless the Glass Shards property adds a lot more DPS than I am guessing.

https://ddocompendium.com/w/The_Fractured_Elegance_(Complete)


I think I'd still favor Vulkoor's Edge as the best scimmy.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Vulkoor%27s_Edge



For Boss beat downs I'd imagine the glass shards stacking on a wolf is going to be quick and solid DPS. Although I'd imagine if you're in Reaper than their power will diminish quite a bit.
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #20 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 4:51pm
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Edrein wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 3:33pm:
For Boss beat downs I'd imagine the glass shards stacking on a wolf is going to be quick and solid DPS. Although I'd imagine if you're in Reaper than their power will diminish quite a bit.


Vulkoors edge is better due to +9d6 extra dmg and metalline. Sharn weapons are meh
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2019 at 4:52pm by yardarm_ »  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #21 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 5:04pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Jun 26th, 2019 at 11:28am:
No idea how. It seems to be a rather huge unlisted damage bonus coming from somewhere.

Anything else relevant would also show up there, except for KtA. I tested : Deadly, Ram's Might, Prowess potions, filigree bonuses and class ap bonuses. So far all of them show up there.

Here is Tronko on his paladin getting like 185 damage in reaper
https://i.imgur.com/dvjeLnE.png


Ok, so the Inventory details screen shows every thing but the weapon base dice. I tested using basic +1 scimitars from House D shop.

https://i.imgur.com/b4jmslO.png

Broken down into :

4 reaper cores.
35 dex
24 deadly
+4 enchantment on +1 weapon ( 2 arborea, 1 harper )
7 tempest tree

= +74 total

Which checks out with the screenshot at 74.



It is sad to watch how tronko has to use cheats/tricks to make his shitty paladin viable in reaper lol
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #22 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 5:25pm
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yardarm_ wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 5:04pm:
It is sad to watch how tronko has to use cheats/tricks to make his shitty paladin viable in reaper lol


Which might also explain the aforementioned bard solo'ing Grimm on R8.  I've watched that video and I still don't understand how he does it.  Sure super high Dire Charge dc, guard breaking on the Chitin shield et cetera. However, the dmg is just crazy for being a sword and board bard.

Shocked
  
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #23 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 8:42pm
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yardarm_ wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 5:04pm:
It is sad to watch how tronko has to use cheats/tricks to make his shitty paladin viable in reaper lol

ask him for exploits. those guys love sharing
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Blackrazor VS Tail
Reply #24 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 8:44pm
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Ulysses wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 5:25pm:
Which might also explain the aforementioned bard solo'ing Grimm on R8.  I've watched that video and I still don't understand how he does it.  Sure super high Dire Charge dc, guard breaking on the Chitin shield et cetera. However, the dmg is just crazy for being a sword and board bard.

Vinci uses cheat engine
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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