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Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Jul 29th, 2020 at 10:02pm
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I decided to use quarterstaff for melee lives a long time ago, before I stopped playing. I came back this year to find that THF got a nice buff, and quarterstaffs were not completely useless. I'm pretty sanguine about any upcoming nerfs - I find DDO better if I simply enjoy nice things while they last.

This is not an endgame, high reaper, or raiding focused build because I suck at all three with my whopping 16 or so reaper points and miserable hand-eye coordination, but the goals are:
  1. Monk past life using quarterstaff
  2. Decent trap skills.
  3. Since I'll be wearing pajamas and lacking PRR/MRR, try for a bit more dodge and maybe play with spring attack.
  4. Sniff some flowers along the way.
I had no interest in pure monk, since the trees are so handwrap focused, and I had heard that everything stacks from Acrobat and Kensai, so I hope that's true. I just bought a +8 tome, so enjoy the first taste of my money since 2013, SSG. I still don't feel the slightest bit bad about all of those +3 tomes for bank characters from the dice cruncher, and the reduced tome drop rates only solidify my utter lack of regret.

I've got most of the L10, L15, L21 and L29 gear that I think I'll need, along with a fine collection of quarterstaffs. I also have some old handwraps on my L26 monk, and I figured that stunning fist and the first tier of TWF were an investment I was willing to make for variety, but it's not something I want to do all the way to level cap. I might respec to T5 falconry for a few levels just to kick the tires, but I don't have any racial points or anything like that to spend.

Without further ado, would you be so kind as to tell me the many diverse ways that this build sucks, and how it could suck less. Keep in mind that it might only see level 30 for a few minutes on the way to the reincarnation grove, and if I don't enjoy it, it will TR at 20.

Classes: 15 Monk, 10 Epic, 3 Rogue, 2 Fighter
Race: Human · · · · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Neutral

· · ·Start Tome Final
Str:· · 15· · 8 · ·23 · · ·HP:· · · · 502 · · ·AC:· · 48
Dex:· · 11· · 8 · ·19 · · ·PRR: · · · ·18
Con:· · 13· · 8 · ·21 · · ·MRR: · · · · 0 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 30
Int:· · 12· · 8 · ·20 · · ·Dodge: · 21/32 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · ·0
Wis:· · 18· · 8 · ·33 · · ·Fort:· · · ·0% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · ·8· · 8 · ·16 · · ·SR:· · · · ·25 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 15
DR:
Immunities: Disease, Natural Poison

Heroic Past Lives
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Past Life: Barbarian
Past Life: Cleric
Past Life: Druid
Past Life: Rogue
Past Life: Sorcerer
Past Life: Wizard

Epic Past Lives
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Skill Mastery(2)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Ancient Power


Special Feats
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Falconry Tree
Harper Agent Tree
Inquisitive Tree
Vistani Knife Fighter Tree


Saves:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Fortitude:· · · · ·23
· vs Poison:· · · ·33*
· vs Disease: · · ·23
Will: · · · · · · ·26
· vs Enchantment: ·28
· vs Illusion:· · ·26
· vs Fear:· · · · ·26
· vs Curse: · · · ·26
Reflex: · · · · · ·26
· vs Traps: · · · ·28
· vs Spell: · · · ·26
· vs Magic: · · · ·26
Marked with a * is no fail on a 1 if required DC met

Class and Feat Selection
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Rogue(1)· · · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Human Bonus: Power Attack
2 · · Monk(1) · · · · ·Monk Bonus: Stunning Fist
3 · · Monk(2) · · · · ·Standard: Precision
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Monk Bonus: Deflect Arrows
4 · · Monk(3) · · · · ·Monk Philosophy: Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
5 · · Fighter(1)· · · ·Fighter Bonus: Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
6 · · Monk(4) · · · · ·Standard: Cleave
7 · · Monk(5) · · · · ·
8 · · Monk(6) · · · · ·Monk Bonus: Dodge
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
9 · · Fighter(2)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Fighter Bonus: Mobility
10· · Rogue(2)· · · · ·
11· · Monk(7) · · · · ·
12· · Monk(8) · · · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
13· · Monk(9) · · · · ·
14· · Rogue(3)· · · · ·
15· · Monk(10)· · · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
16· · Monk(11)· · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
17· · Monk(12)· · · · ·
18· · Monk(13)· · · · ·Standard: Spring Attack
19· · Monk(14)· · · · ·
20· · Monk(15)· · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Improved Martial Arts
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Watchful Eye
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Guardian Angel
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Blinding Speed
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of the Astral Plane

Skills
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Skill Points· · ·40 ·7· 7 ·7· 5 ·7· 8 ·8· 6 12· 8 ·8· 8 12· 9 ·9· 9 ·9· 9 ·9
Skill Name· · · ·01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20· Total Buffed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Balance · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 · · · · · 3 · · · · · 1 ·2· 1 · · 2 ·1· · ·3· · ·3· ·22.0 · 39.0
Bluff · · · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 17.0
Concentration · · · ·2· 4 ·1· · ·1· 2 · · · · · 3 · · 3 · · · · · · ·3· · ·3· ·22.0 · 37.0
Diplomacy · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5.0 · 18.0
Disable Device· · 4 · · · ·1· · ·1· ½ 1½· · ·5· · ·1· · ·3· 1 ·1· 1 · · 2 · · ·22.0 · 37.0
Haggle· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 13.0
Heal· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 21.0
Hide· · · · · · · 4 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5.0 · 19.0
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 33.0
Jump· · · · · · · · · · · · · 3 · · · · · 2 · · · · · 1 · · · ·1· · · · · · · · 7.0 · 26.0
Listen· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 23.0
Move Silently · · 4 · · 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5.0 · 19.0
Open Lock · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 18.0
Perform · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 13.0
Repair· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 15.0
Search· · · · · · 4 · · · · · · ·1· · ·1· · ·5· · ·1· 1 ·3· 1 ·1· 2 ·1· 1 · · ·22.0 · 37.0
Spell Craft · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 15.0
Spot· · · · · · · 4 ·1· · ·2· · · · 1 ·1· · ·1· · · · 1 ·5· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·22.0 · 45.0
Swim· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Tumble· · · · · · · ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1.0 · 18.0
Use Magic Device· 4 ·½· ½ ·1· 1 ·1· · ·1· 2 ·1· 2 ·1· · ·1· 1 ·1· 1 · · 1 ·1· ·21.0 · 34.0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Available Points· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

Enhancements: 80 APs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Human - Points spent: 3
1 Core ·(1) Versatility I: Skill Boost
2 Tier1 (2) Improved Recovery I
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Falconry - Points spent: 15
1 Core ·(1) Summon Falcon: Summon Snow Owl
2 Tier1 (1) Rugged
3 Tier1 (1) Rugged
4 Tier1 (1) Practiced Accuracy
5 Tier1 (1) Practiced Accuracy
6 Tier2 (2) Killer Instinct I
7 Tier1 (1) Rugged
8 Tier1 (1) Out in Nature
9 Tier1 (1) Out in Nature
10 Tier3 (2) Killer Instinct II
11 Tier3 (2) Conditioning
12 Tier3 (1) Strike for the Eyes: Shoot for the Eyes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Henshin Mystic - Points spent: 36
1 Core ·(1) Riddle of Fire
2 Tier1 (2) Henshin Staff Training I
3 Tier1 (2) Animal Forms: Way of the Tenacious Badger
4 Tier2 (2) Henshin Staff Training II
5 Core ·(1) Ki Bolt
6 Tier1 (1) Elemental Words I: Winter's Touch
7 Tier2 (1) Elemental Words II: All-Consuming Flame
8 Tier3 (2) Henshin Staff Training III
9 Core ·(1) Sounding Staff
10 Tier3 (1) Elemental Words III: Static Charge
11 Tier3 (1) Lighting the Candle
12 Tier3 (1) Lighting the Candle
13 Tier3 (1) Lighting the Candle
14 Tier2 (2) Elemental Ki Strikes: Unbalancing Strike
15 Tier3 (1) Embrace the Void
16 Tier4 (2) Focus
17 Tier4 (2) Henshin Staff Training IV
18 Core ·(1) Incinerating Wave
19 Tier2 (1) Quick Strike
20 Tier2 (1) Quick Strike
21 Tier2 (1) Quick Strike
22 Tier3 (1) Embrace the Void
23 Tier3 (1) Embrace the Void
24 Tier5 (2) Balance in Dawn: Henshin Mystic: Shadows Cannot Exist Without Light
25 Tier5 (2) Staff Specialization
26 Tier5 (2) Henshin Staff Training V
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Thief-Acrobat - Points spent: 16
1 Core ·(1) Staff Control
2 Tier1 (2) Acrobat Staff Training I
3 Tier1 (1) Thief Acrobatics
4 Tier1 (1) Thief Acrobatics
5 Tier1 (1) Thief Acrobatics
6 Core ·(1) Stick Fighting
7 Tier2 (2) Acrobat Staff Training II
8 Tier1 (2) Fast Movement
9 Tier3 (2) Acrobat Staff Training III
10 Tier3 (1) Improved Second Strikes
11 Tier3 (1) Improved Second Strikes
12 Tier3 (1) Improved Second Strikes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Kensei - Points spent: 10
1 Core ·(1) Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus: Martial Arts
2 Tier1 (2) Weapon Group Specialization I: Kensei Focus: Martial Arts
3 Tier1 (1) Action Boost: Haste Boost
4 Tier1 (1) Action Boost: Haste Boost
5 Tier2 (1) Improved Dodge
6 Tier2 (1) Improved Dodge
7 Tier2 (1) Improved Dodge
8 Tier2 (2) Weapon Group Specialization II: Kensei Focus: Martial Arts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

  

Memnir wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 10:59am:
Note to any Turbine staffers reading this, and one I genuinely hope you share around the office: DDO has become a shit game because y'all have made it a shit game. Once it was great. Now, it's a festering puddle of monkey diarrhea. No matter how you try to justify it, or pat yourselves on the back for doing great jobs... it's a shit game now because of you. Y'all keep on giving the players the middle finger, and you keep expecting us to reward you for the abuse. I've had it with you narcissistic fuckwads and your myopic policies of ineptitude.
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #1 - Jul 29th, 2020 at 11:11pm
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hi, welcome
  
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #2 - Jul 29th, 2020 at 11:46pm
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harharharhar wrote on Jul 29th, 2020 at 11:11pm:
hi, welcome

Are you new here or something? The comma is not canon.
  

Memnir wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 10:59am:
Note to any Turbine staffers reading this, and one I genuinely hope you share around the office: DDO has become a shit game because y'all have made it a shit game. Once it was great. Now, it's a festering puddle of monkey diarrhea. No matter how you try to justify it, or pat yourselves on the back for doing great jobs... it's a shit game now because of you. Y'all keep on giving the players the middle finger, and you keep expecting us to reward you for the abuse. I've had it with you narcissistic fuckwads and your myopic policies of ineptitude.
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #3 - Jul 30th, 2020 at 3:35am
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Guardian Angel seems like a wasted feat.
  

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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #4 - Jul 30th, 2020 at 12:08pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 30th, 2020 at 3:35am:
Guardian Angel seems like a wasted feat.


It's Guardian Angel or Mass Frog or Pierce [metal type]. Not a lot of super good options for level 28 if you don't have the DC for Mass Frog.

...of course, if you DO have the DC for Mass Frog, then that's the one.
  
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #5 - Jul 30th, 2020 at 12:15pm
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I've been keen on First Blood. Am I overestimating it?
  
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #6 - Jul 30th, 2020 at 12:26pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 30th, 2020 at 3:35am:
Guardian Angel seems like a wasted feat.

Thanks, I struggle with Epic feats as I don't know which ones are actually useful.  I could go Mass Frog, although I would need to wear a Transmutation item. Elusive Target and Holy Strike seem to be okay, but nothing jumps out at me.

The other dilemma I've faced is whether Cauldron of Flame and free Grandmaster of Forms makes 18 monk levels worthwhile. Does Cauldron add value on boss fights, or is it a gimmick / noob trap? It looks large enough in videos to actually be useful. Getting Cauldron would mean giving up on trapping and having to take Swords to Plowshares as a feat. Since I can't succesfully search for a lot of EE traps on my current Wis-based splash, I am willing to give up the 3 rogue.

If I drop rogue levels, then I think the Serenity capstone offers more than two fighter levels, with +4 wisdom, +15% attack speed (which I would otherwise have gotten earlier from my rogue levels), and +1 crit. That would cost me enough feats that I'd have to decide between TWF/Stunning Fist, and Mobility/Spring Attack.

Ideally, I'd like to build something fun to play that I can get two epic past lives on as well as a monk life. What are your thoughts on pure 20 Henshin? I had a lot of fun taking a pure 20 dex-based rogue acrobat to cap, so I'm not too worried about running optimal flavour-of-the-month builds.
  

Memnir wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 10:59am:
Note to any Turbine staffers reading this, and one I genuinely hope you share around the office: DDO has become a shit game because y'all have made it a shit game. Once it was great. Now, it's a festering puddle of monkey diarrhea. No matter how you try to justify it, or pat yourselves on the back for doing great jobs... it's a shit game now because of you. Y'all keep on giving the players the middle finger, and you keep expecting us to reward you for the abuse. I've had it with you narcissistic fuckwads and your myopic policies of ineptitude.
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #7 - Jul 30th, 2020 at 3:57pm
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Do something like 8/6/6. It works out for heroic leveling because you can take all of the low hanging abilities from TA, Kensei, and Henshin. i would stay dex based since the ap is too tight to use shintao tactical attacks, and dex gets better rogue skills to get traps and doors in heroics and epic leveling.

The fighter levels are really just for feats, BAB, and later on Opportunity Attack, but that comes online late heroics. Fighter and Monk get every single feat, ever.

First 6 ap into TA grants full +15 attack speed, Swords to Plowshares + dex to hit and damage. Grab haste boost, quickstrike, strikethrough from TA. Get henshin t5 around level 12 or 13 for the aoe vorpal and heal. I would go light monk just for healing ki attack in combat.   


Edit: Or go 12monk 6 rogue 2 w/e. If you value abundant step more than kensei feats and 20MP.
« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2020 at 4:04pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #8 - Jul 30th, 2020 at 4:02pm
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kum-gulp wrote on Jul 30th, 2020 at 12:15pm:
I've been keen on First Blood. Am I overestimating it?

I don't think it's any good at all. 50-300 proc every 3 seconds only if target is above 90%.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #9 - Jul 31st, 2020 at 5:34am
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Rubbinns wrote on Jul 30th, 2020 at 4:02pm:
I don't think it's any good at all. 50-300 proc every 3 seconds only if target is above 90%.

Yeah it was a least-worst choice really. I figured as I exclusively solo I'll at least always get the proc but it is very situational. I'll review next life, cheers!
  
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #10 - Jul 31st, 2020 at 11:16pm
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Kimberlite wrote on Jul 30th, 2020 at 12:26pm:
Thanks, I struggle with Epic feats as I don't know which ones are actually useful.  I could go Mass Frog, although I would need to wear a Transmutation item. Elusive Target and Holy Strike seem to be okay, but nothing jumps out at me.

The other dilemma I've faced is whether Cauldron of Flame and free Grandmaster of Forms makes 18 monk levels worthwhile. Does Cauldron add value on boss fights, or is it a gimmick / noob trap? It looks large enough in videos to actually be useful. Getting Cauldron would mean giving up on trapping and having to take Swords to Plowshares as a feat. Since I can't succesfully search for a lot of EE traps on my current Wis-based splash, I am willing to give up the 3 rogue.

If I drop rogue levels, then I think the Serenity capstone offers more than two fighter levels, with +4 wisdom, +15% attack speed (which I would otherwise have gotten earlier from my rogue levels), and +1 crit. That would cost me enough feats that I'd have to decide between TWF/Stunning Fist, and Mobility/Spring Attack.

Ideally, I'd like to build something fun to play that I can get two epic past lives on as well as a monk life. What are your thoughts on pure 20 Henshin? I had a lot of fun taking a pure 20 dex-based rogue acrobat to cap, so I'm not too worried about running optimal flavour-of-the-month builds.


Elusive Target might be worth it, depending what difficulty you typically run.

I would think the go to at 28 for monks is Tactician. Seeing 15 monk levels, I assumed you were going to use Quivering Palm, but maybe not since looking back I see you didn't take the + tactics DC in Kensei?
  

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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #11 - Aug 1st, 2020 at 10:33pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 31st, 2020 at 11:16pm:
Elusive Target might be worth it, depending what difficulty you typically run.

I would think the go to at 28 for monks is Tactician. Seeing 15 monk levels, I assumed you were going to use Quivering Palm, but maybe not since looking back I see you didn't take the + tactics DC in Kensei?

Is Elusive Target something that only is worthwhile for EE and low reaper? I don't see this character doing more than riding in someone else's backpack as a soulstone in high reaper.

I have an ancient L26 pure wisdom-based Shintao monk that fails quivering palm all the time, along with other attacks like Jade Tomb in at-level content. I'll definitely think about that if I run a pure wisdom-based monk in the future, but a 15 monk like I first proposed loses a at least 4-5 on DCs (capstone, 2.5 DC lower with only 15 levels of monk). I could go in for stuff like Kensai Tactics, but I can't use Stunning Fist with a quarterstaff, so I don't see much point in making a heavy investment in tactics feats and enhancements to give me debatable effictiveness on Quivering Palm.

I decided to adapt what Rubbins suggested, but switched to getting a fighter life out of the way while I think more about monk. Currently at level 4 with a 7/7/6 dex-based fighter/monk/rogue, mostly going for the Acrobat tree, with some Henshin and Kensai if I have points. I've never played fighter, and there is nothing I've read about the playstyle that interests me, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. That will give me more time to research and play with monks before my next TR in a few months.

I loved my monk and clonks back in 2010-2013, and I want to actually play as a monk when I do that life. I'm leaning towards a pure wis-based 20 Henshin for my next life after this one, knowing that it will be far from optimal, but is reportedly fun to play. That is assuming that THF isn't nerfed entirely into the ground by then. Then I can play with all of the toys, including Cauldron, and have decent DCs on the monk abilities.
  

Memnir wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 10:59am:
Note to any Turbine staffers reading this, and one I genuinely hope you share around the office: DDO has become a shit game because y'all have made it a shit game. Once it was great. Now, it's a festering puddle of monkey diarrhea. No matter how you try to justify it, or pat yourselves on the back for doing great jobs... it's a shit game now because of you. Y'all keep on giving the players the middle finger, and you keep expecting us to reward you for the abuse. I've had it with you narcissistic fuckwads and your myopic policies of ineptitude.
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Re: Monk stick build multiclass - critique request
Reply #12 - Aug 2nd, 2020 at 1:58am
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Kimberlite wrote on Aug 1st, 2020 at 10:33pm:
Is Elusive Target something that only is worthwhile for EE and low reaper? I don't see this character doing more than riding in someone else's backpack as a soulstone in high reaper.


The value of Elusive Target scales upwards as difficulty increases and therefore the amount of damage it helps you avoid in a given hit approaches your Max HP.
  
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