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Hot Topic (More than 35 Replies) What were they thinking? (Read 20441 times)
Viktor Vaughn
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #25 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:12pm
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Hiding wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 12:09pm:
Personally, I think casters are harder to play well as casters. Yes, you can play them as one-button easy sauce (shiradi), but it's tough to use them in such a way to make use of all of their spells - and that's the fun part.

Melee are harder to prepare. They take a lot of gear planning and then, despite the changes, there are trade offs between self-reliance and raw dps. I keep choosing dps on mine and it's not quite working. I still haven't figured out how to make an EE solo pure fighter yet.

Yet playing melee is probably easier. You just don't have as many abilities - dps is done via weapons. Yes, you can swap them out, but at the end of the day, you have one button to make dps happen (plus cleave/gr.cleave, and other swing weapon buttons). Casters, you press different buttons for each spell you use - and many of them do different things.

But the hardest to play, as far as my experience goes, is a pure fleshy artificer. Not only do you have their spells, their weapons, and the rune arm, you have all the little clickies you've save up that make or break your survival.

I think anyone can play a high-save wf/bf because of the easy healing. Fleshies take work! And at the end of that day, that's more rewarding (at least, to me).

You can play caster in DI and it is still easier than melee on ee.
How many spells do casters really use?
2-3 dps ones, dots only for bosses.
Dont tell me buff counts as casting spells because melees have clickies too.
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:13pm by Viktor Vaughn »  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #26 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:16pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 1:19pm:


see above...
  

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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #27 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:16pm
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Viktor Vaughn wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:12pm:
You can play caster in DI and it is still easier than melee on ee.


I have a completionist top-DC wizard.  My 4th life paladin or one of my rangers solos EE easier.  The casters are fantastic with the trash but the red-names are painful.

I'm not sure if it's easier or harder, it's just better.
  
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Viktor Vaughn
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #28 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:20pm
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Yea, paladin which got buffed like crazy, what split is ranger?
  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #29 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:24pm
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Viktor Vaughn wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:20pm:
Yea, paladin which got buffed like crazy, what split is ranger?


Paladins are ridiculous right now, but he was doing almost as well last update as a bladeforged centered kensai.

One ranger is 18 ranger/1 rogue/1 fighter, the other is 15 ranger/4 pally/1 fighter (Eth's build, trying it out on a TR).  Both melee 99% of the time.  Neither is nearly as tough as the paladin is for what is is worth.
  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #30 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:44pm
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Viktor Vaughn wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:12pm:
You can play caster in DI and it is still easier than melee on ee.
How many spells do casters really use?
2-3 dps ones, dots only for bosses.
Dont tell me buff counts as casting spells because melees have clickies too.


I like to vary my spells, so I use more than 2-3. But I guess if you're conserving sp, you largely use slas. And, yeah, I can clear any quest of mobs faster than the melee I run with. But really...I pug a lot, so faster than most people I run with - most people play casters poorly. I can only think of maybe 5 people who play them well.

But I have this feeling that melee can perform better than casters, if just built right. Because the dps is continuous and very high under the right circumstances.
  
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Viktor Vaughn
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #31 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 7:06pm
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Casters are harder to master.
I did my caster lives as shiradi bf, was so easy you could sleep through it.
Grab 10-20 mobs, put ice storm, few missiles, burst.
But did sorc half way as DI, it just sucks when you encounter mobs immune to your element.
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2014 at 7:07pm by Viktor Vaughn »  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #32 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 11:26pm
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Viktor Vaughn wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 7:06pm:
Casters are harder to master.
I did my caster lives as shiradi bf, was so easy you could sleep through it.
Grab 10-20 mobs, put ice storm, few missiles, burst.
But did sorc half way as DI, it just sucks when you encounter mobs immune to your element.


Totally. I use two elements to get around that issue and a tiny bit into the off element just in case mobs are immune to both my mains. But it is very sp draining to use the off element.

I found DI dps to be ridiculous but just not sustainable. If you could round them all up, energy burst and dragon's breath, no more mobs Smiley

I'm trying to make my melee EE capable now - was just running with a great group and we actually had a healer (4 melee, 1 caster, 1 healer). That allowed us to focus our dps and, wow, EE Stormhorns went by very fast - WGU, 37 min. Break, all opts, 17 min.
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2014 at 11:30pm by Hiding »  
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DropBear
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #33 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 12:55am
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Hiding wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 11:26pm:
Totally. I use two elements to get around that issue and a tiny bit into the off element just in case mobs are immune to both my mains. But it is very sp draining to use the off element.


What elements do you run with as primary and secondary?

  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #34 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 2:34am
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Hiding wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 11:26pm:
I'm trying to make my melee EE capable now - was just running with a great group and we actually had a healer (4 melee, 1 caster, 1 healer). That allowed us to focus our dps and, wow, EE Stormhorns went by very fast - WGU, 37 min. Break, all opts, 17 min.

Get the fuck out of town! A healer? Who thawed that out of the ice?
  

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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #35 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 2:54am
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Revaulting wrote on Nov 3rd, 2014 at 2:34am:
Get the fuck out of town! A healer? Who thawed that out of the ice?


Hey, I run a healer.    Embarrassed.  When I'm feeling masochistic.

There are still some people who need us....
Cry
  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #36 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 9:40am
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DropBear wrote on Nov 3rd, 2014 at 2:54am:
Hey, I run a healer.    Embarrassed.  When I'm feeling masochistic.

There are still some people who need us....
Cry


My melee needs you! I love you!!! Anything, anything, just run with us!
  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #37 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 9:40am
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DropBear wrote on Nov 3rd, 2014 at 2:54am:
Hey, I run a healer.    Embarrassed.  When I'm feeling masochistic.

There are still some people who need us....
Cry


My sorc thinks you're a waste of dps though.

:p
  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #38 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 9:48am
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DropBear wrote on Nov 3rd, 2014 at 12:55am:
What elements do you run with as primary and secondary?



During my draconic lives, I did lightning and cold, but for shiradi, I respecked to max force over cold.

Now I'm thinking to ditch cold entirely for fire. The number of cold immune mobs went up dramatically with Enecro and fire synergizes more with shiradi yet the biggest problem is that respecking in force almost entirely killed my cold dps output.

I solo'd a lot during DI, trying to learn how to do EEs on my own, so cold was quite helpful in slowing enemies down - used to even run with sleetstorm, but have dropped it now as it is not party friendly. If you sleetstorm + icestorm, mobs slow down to very killable speeds and you don't take much damage.
  
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Viktor Vaughn
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #39 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 12:30pm
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I went with fire when I was sorc, just does more dmg to undead mobs, and you have lots of them.
  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #40 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 1:20pm
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I liked this part:

When a problem comes along
You must nerf it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must nerf it
When something's goin' wrong
You must nerf it

Now nerf it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To nerf it
Nerf it good

When a good time turns around
You must nerf it
You will never live it down
Unless you nerf it
No one gets away
Until they nerf it

I say nerf it
nerf it good
I say nerf it
Nerf it good

Crack that nerf
Give the past a slip
Step on a crack
Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along
You must nerf it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must nerf it
When something's goin' wrong
You must nerf it

Now nerf it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To nerf it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To nerf it
Well, nerf it good
  

Felgor wrote on May 21st, 2013 at 3:45am:
DDO died a long time ago, we just all have trouble admitting it.

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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #41 - Nov 4th, 2014 at 4:22am
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Hiding wrote on Nov 3rd, 2014 at 9:48am:
During my draconic lives, I did lightning and cold, but for shiradi, I respecked to max force over cold.

Now I'm thinking to ditch cold entirely for fire. The number of cold immune mobs went up dramatically with Enecro and fire synergizes more with shiradi yet the biggest problem is that respecking in force almost entirely killed my cold dps output.

I solo'd a lot during DI, trying to learn how to do EEs on my own, so cold was quite helpful in slowing enemies down - used to even run with sleetstorm, but have dropped it now as it is not party friendly. If you sleetstorm + icestorm, mobs slow down to very killable speeds and you don't take much damage.


I've been running Cold and Acid and found it pretty effective.
Acid spells aren't quick kills, but Acid Energy Burst hits nearly everything.
Even though Fire is my weak element, I still find Wall of Fire and Meteor swarm to be effective enough against Cold creatures, despite the penalties.
Cold is good for direct damage with the various rays, cone and Otiluke's.  I liked Cold because you can project damage at range.  You can land multiple spells/SLA's before a mob has a chance to close.
And the various SLA's allow you to do decent damage very cheaply - although admittedly, conserving SP's isn't a focus anymore.
I used ice storm occasionally thru Heroic, but never sleet storm - next time thru, will try that combo.  I usually just use Dancing ball to group up mobs for Energy Burst.

DI is how all the ED's should be!
Too many good choices such that you can't have them all.
It forces you to make choices and choose a style.

I was surprised that Cold was still ok in eOrchard.
But I switch to Acid and untyped damage spells (Force missiles and Disintegrate) as needed.
  
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GermanicusMaximus
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #42 - Nov 9th, 2014 at 8:56pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 1st, 2014 at 9:12pm:
So I think you're being overly provocative in spanking the melee players.



Kinky! I'd be down for spanking some melee players, if the player base, aside from me, was comprised entirely of women. Anything to help Turbine!

As it is, the player base is comprised overwhelmingly of men. Spanking melee players is a task better undertaken by someone like Yobai. I recommend that all the melee players keep those butt cheeks squeezed together as tight as they can.  Cool
  

Family, Country, and the US stock market. Although, in a pinch, any convertible currency or liquid asset will do.

Yobai wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 6:15pm:
I would rather give Thrudh a rim job.


Bigjunk wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 12:21pm:
That is some masterful trolling.


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GermanicusMaximus
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #43 - Nov 9th, 2014 at 9:02pm
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Skoodge wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 3:55am:
Because running backwards and casting spells while jumping up and down like a Kansas city faggot takes so much skill.


If you keep typing shit like that, Revaulting will start calling you homophobic. Or, maybe Revaulting only calls people homophobic when they make fun of his boy toy Yobai.
  

Family, Country, and the US stock market. Although, in a pinch, any convertible currency or liquid asset will do.

Yobai wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 6:15pm:
I would rather give Thrudh a rim job.


Bigjunk wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 12:21pm:
That is some masterful trolling.


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GermanicusMaximus
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #44 - Nov 9th, 2014 at 9:09pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 12:21pm:
That is some masterful trolling.


Thanks. I have always found that the best trolling is 100% factual. The truth will bunch panties far faster than any fiction ever could.
  

Family, Country, and the US stock market. Although, in a pinch, any convertible currency or liquid asset will do.

Yobai wrote on Jun 18th, 2014 at 6:15pm:
I would rather give Thrudh a rim job.


Bigjunk wrote on Nov 2nd, 2014 at 12:21pm:
That is some masterful trolling.


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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #45 - Nov 9th, 2014 at 10:58pm
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DropBear wrote on Nov 4th, 2014 at 4:22am:
I've been running Cold and Acid and found it pretty effective.
Acid spells aren't quick kills, but Acid Energy Burst hits nearly everything.
Even though Fire is my weak element, I still find Wall of Fire and Meteor swarm to be effective enough against Cold creatures, despite the penalties.
Cold is good for direct damage with the various rays, cone and Otiluke's.  I liked Cold because you can project damage at range.  You can land multiple spells/SLA's before a mob has a chance to close.
And the various SLA's allow you to do decent damage very cheaply - although admittedly, conserving SP's isn't a focus anymore.
I used ice storm occasionally thru Heroic, but never sleet storm - next time thru, will try that combo.  I usually just use Dancing ball to group up mobs for Energy Burst.

DI is how all the ED's should be!
Too many good choices such that you can't have them all.
It forces you to make choices and choose a style.

I was surprised that Cold was still ok in eOrchard.
But I switch to Acid and untyped damage spells (Force missiles and Disintegrate) as needed.


Yeah, acid blast. Thinking about using that on my artie but it doesn't synergize with anything.

Ice storm and sleet storm worked for me b/c I use an air savant - meaning that I can wings through it pretty easily. I imagine it will be more difficult on toons w/out wings. But, yeah, it's a useful combination for slowing everything coming at you down.
  
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #46 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 1:12am
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GermanicusMaximus wrote on Nov 1st, 2014 at 12:23pm:
1) I have nothing even vaguely  resembling game skill

2) melee toons require absolutely too much skill for me to play even remotely decently



Dumb asses. I should probably be playing Hello Kitty or My Little Pony Online, except for the fact that i already tried, and failed, at those games. Now, DDO is being targeted to the people like myself who are so inept that I can't make the grade in Hello Kitty or My Little Pony Online.

I guess everyone deserves the right to be uber at something. If you suck at real life, suck at Hello Kitty Online, and suck at My Little Pony Online, come play a non-melee toon in DDO. Now that should be the center of DDO's new advertising campaign.

Dont be so hard on yourself, dude.

I'll wait for you to read this, dwell on it for a week and then respond this coming weekend after you planned your best comeback. Which I'll just shit on again, like I shit on you every time you post your stupid shit.
« Last Edit: Nov 10th, 2014 at 1:13am by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #47 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 1:55am
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Revaulting
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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #48 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 2:36am
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GermanicusMaximus wrote on Nov 9th, 2014 at 9:02pm:
If you keep typing shit like that, Revaulting will start calling you homophobic. Or, maybe Revaulting only calls people homophobic when they make fun of his boy toy Yobai.

Well I try to mention buttsex and homosexuality as often as I can. Also it's very important to me which posters on The Vault prefer same-sex encounters.

But you consistently make more mentions than me, and keep laser-focused track on the important things: who is homosexual.

So yeah, you got me. All that time you spend talking about buttsex just makes me jealous that you're better at it than me. So I took the coward's option and called you a homophobe. Which you clearly aren't, on account of all the times you point out who is homosexual when it has nothing to do with the thread. You're just raising awareness.
  

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Re: What were they thinking?
Reply #49 - Nov 10th, 2014 at 6:07am
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Any Class is good for piking.
  

You gotta fight for your right to party!
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