This week (and probably next as it's a busy week at work) I plan on trying to test all in game sources of Deception and Deception like effects. Now that SA damage scales so hard with Ranged Power, it's potentially a much bigger source of damage. In my particular bias, it makes Thrower splits with lots of rogue levels and running in SD potentially the highest thrower DPS around. Unless of course, you can't get your SA damage off most of the time, hence the deep dive on Deception.

This includes:

Weapon Based Deception (Sneak Attack on Weapon)
Weapon Based Deception (Old style "Deception" attribute on Weapon)
Item Based Deception (either Deception like Dragon Masque or Improved Deception a la Avithoul Ring or Golden Guile)
Harper T5 Ability
Top Tier Shadar Kai Ability
Shadow Dancer 6th Core ability

Am I missing sources?

If anyone else wants to test independently, that would be awesome. Part of what I'm hoping to understand is stacking, ie how many of the sources work together, or if they all basically just proc on a 20, etc. Also, just because they state they make enemies vulnerable to Sneak Attacks doesn't mean they reduce inherent immunity or overcome fortification, I don't think. I'd like to try and verify this as well.

According to Wiki, deception is a 5% chance (generally that means a 20) and Improved Deception is a 10% chance (I suppose most likely a 19-20). Now whether this is keyed off an attack roll or if for each attack a separate roll is made for a given Deception/Imp Deception/Other Name effect to proc. If every hit from a weapon allows for an independent roll for each type of Deception effect, then it makes sense to slot as many as possible. Or maybe theres stacking issues where the same type only allows one roll. I have no idea, and DDOWiki is not exactly authoritative on the issue.

Deception From DDO wiki

Deception (U19)
Suffix
Base price modifier: varies, +1 per X
Effect: * 5% chance on hit: Your target becomes bluffed for four seconds. Bluffed enemies can be targeted
by sneak attacks even while targeting you.
On sneak attack: +X to attack rolls, +2X to damage.

Deception (old)
Suffix
Base price modifier: +1
Effect: This weapon is hard to focus upon and thus provides a +3 enhancement bonus to Bluff checks. In
addition, Deception weapons have a chance to envelop the target in darkness, making them vulnerable to
sneak attacks for a short time.
Found on:
Category:Deception items

Improved Deception
Effect: This weapon/item is hard to focus upon and thus provides a +5 enhancement bonus to Bluff checks.
In addition, Improved Deception weapons have a chance to envelop the target in darkness, making them
vulnerable to sneak attacks for a short time. This chance is greater than that of weapons with normal
Deception. Double the chance according to a devpost.

The Improved Deception on Golden Guile and Ring of Lies applies to your currently equipped weapons,
and will stack with weapons that already have Improved Deception or Deception. This will give a higher
chance to trigger the effect.
Found on:
Category:Improved Deception items
Retrieved from "http://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Deception&oldid=192121"
Categories: Weapon suffixes Unique item enchantments
















Please ignore the inevitable Hag Master appearance and resulting vitriol. Unless of course Hag, you actually want to participate in something constructive and do some testing. That would be cool.

Oooooh... I'd love to see all these sources tested.  A few questions for establishing assumptions though:

You list "top tier Shadarkai ability".  Gloom Stalker is odd as there are two components.  The first appears to be a true "deception" effect which only occurs while sneaking.  The second is a "blindness" effect that occurs all the time.  Will you attempt to separate these two components?  If not, should you include all sources of blindness into your test?  It appears that the top core of Shadowdancer is also a blindness effect which occurs on vorpal.

Corollary question re: the Shadowdancer top core.  Has anyone tested if Perfect SWF grants the increased vorpal range to thrown weapons?

RolyPoly wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:


great points, good questions. TBD

Hag Master wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 5:21pm:


So while I agree that TF blindness is complete garbage, I wasn't including that in this testing since it's a well understood mechanic, both from TF where it blows, and Greensteel where it works great. That is to say, if you blind something, you auto Sneak Attack, though do not bypass fort or SA immunity.

Good info.

What about non equipment based sources?

I notice the difference, but it is perceived by me as small, between stacking and not. I'll be interested to see the verdict of the numbers and how unreliable or not my perception is.

I actually meant other sources as in Shadow Dancer, Shadar Kai and T5 Harper

Im not sure about shadow dancer, but the harper one adds its deception as a enhancment of your weapon so it doesnt work with items. .
You could tho take tier 5 in harper and get no weapon with imp deception.
How worth that is depends on other tier 5s you would lose that way (in case rogue id say very much not worth it)

I think that shadowdancer and shadar kais are coded to work the same.
Why do i think that is simply because i think devs were to lazy to create new bonus for shadar and just copy pastes sdancer one.
But havent tested those 2 together, just assuming

WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2017 at 1:57pm:


It's not, unless you're a melee assassin build.

Also... did you do testing?

Ya but you can only use one of those at a time.

2.5 years later,

I tested Gloom, it only works with melee, and from sneaking. So if you autoattack and spam sneak you will get it off pretty regularly. It does remove SA immunity, but you still have to piece the fort.

haphazard wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2019 at 11:10am:


Gloomstalker? It's worded like a deception proc, but it actually removes sneak attack immunity. So it's good for constructs, undead, etc.