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Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. (Read 8349 times)

Wolfrin Fenris Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 7 Joined: Jul 6^th, 2015	Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:36pm	Print Post
	Fairly new to DDO and this will be my first.post. on these forums as well. I enjoy theory crafting, especially in a game like DDO where there are so many possible combinations and synergies. I am looking for some constructive criticism on a build idea I had. Honest feedback is appreciated but "Won't work" isn't exactly what I'm looking for. Perhaps "Won't work with that split. x/x/x would be a better split." Feedback I can use to improve the build is greatly appreciated. As well I will say that I have not reached maximum level yet. I've done quite a bit of research on the wiki and a whole lot of theorycrafting but my in-game knowledge is not very great. I prefer to plan out what I will do in a game like this where incorrect choices are essentially pitfalls. If there is a rather obvious reason that something I have included in the build wont work, I would greatly appreciate an explanation as to why. What is obvious to an experienced player may not be obvious to less experienced players. And now the build! Quote: Ranger/rogue/monk 9/6/5 Ranger/Rogue/Monk Lawful Neutral Drow Level Order 1. Rogue� �� 6. Monk� �� 11. Ranger� �� 16. Rogue 2. Ranger� �� 7. Rogue� �� 12. Ranger� �� 17. Ranger 3. Monk� �� 8. Ranger� �� 13. Rogue� �� 18. Ranger 4. Rogue� �� 9. Ranger� �� 14. Monk� �� 19. Monk 5. Ranger� �� 10. Rogue� �� 15. Ranger� �� 20. Monk Stats � �� 32pt� �� Level Up � �� ----� �� -------- Strength� �� 8� �� 4: DEX Dexterity� �� 20� �� 8: DEX Constitution� � 14� �� 12: DEX Intelligence� � 16� �� 16: DEX Wisdom� �� 8� �� 20: DEX Charisma� �� 10� �� Skills � �� Rg Rn Mo Rg Rn Mo Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Mo Rn Rg Rn Rn Mo Mo � �� 1� 2� 3� 4� 5� 6� 7� 8� 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 � �� ------------------------------------------------------------ Balance� �4� �� 2� �� 3� �� 5� �� 5� 4� 23 Search� � 4� 1� �� 3� �� 3� 1� �� 2� 1� �� 3� �� 2� 1� �� 21 Spot� �� 4� 1� �� 3� �� 3� 1� �� 2� 1� �� 3� �� 2� 1� �� 21 Disable� �4� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 19 Open Lo� �4� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 19 Hide� �� 4� 1� 1� �� 1� �� 3� �� 3� 2� �� 1� 3� �� 19 Move Si� �3� 2� 1� �� 1� 1� �� 1� 2� �� 3� �� 1� �� 2� 2� �� 19 UMD� �� 4� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 3� �� 19 Jump� �� 3� 2� 1� �� 1� �7 Tumble� � 2� �� 2 � �� ------------------------------------------------------------ � �� 36� 7� 5� 9� 7� 5� 9� 7� 7� 9� 7� 7� 9� 5� 7� 9� 7� 7� 5� 5 Feats 1� �� : Combat Expertise 2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead 3� �� : Weapon Focus: Slashing 3 Monk� �: Whirling Steel Strike 6� �� : Improved Feint 6 Monk� �: Precision 9� �� : Two Weapon Defense 11 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant 12� �� : Improved Critical: Slashing 14 Monk� �: Path of Inevitable Dominion 15� �� : Greater Two Weapon Fighting 18� �� : Power Critical Spells Longstrider, Resist Energy Protection from Energy Enhancements (80 AP) Deepwood Stalker (7 AP) Far Shot, Sneak Attack Stealthy III, Tendon Cut II Tempest (41 AP) Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades, Acrobatic I Bleed Them Out III, Whirling Blades Critical Accuracy III, Whirling Blades, Dexterity Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades, Dexterity Evasive Dance II, A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III Assassin (18 AP) Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III Venomed Blades I, Sneak Attack Training Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity Ninja Spy (14 AP) Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III Subtlety III, Sneak Attack Training Sneak Attack Training Destiny (24 AP) Shadowdancer Stealthy III, Technician III, Dexterity Lithe II, Dexterity Grim Precision III, Dexterity Dexterity Executioner's Strike III, Dexterity General Idea is a TWF build that has quite a bit of sneak attack damage while getting free useful feats from ranger and maintaining good rogue skills for solo/versatality. Weapon selection will probably be Longsword/shortsword, although I'm not sure what the best selections are for this. I added in the Shadowdancer Destiny, but I don't really understand the Destinies yet, so it may not be correct or even make sense.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2015 at 6:29pm by Wolfrin Fenris »

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OnePercenter Advocatus Diaboli Offline Ants Eat Dead Grasshoppers Posts: 9985 Joined: Dec 4^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #1 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 8:32pm	Print Post
	Needs moar cowbells...

	Feynman wrote on Jan 20^th, 2015 at 4:57pm: One thing for everyone who is a "skeptic" on this issue: Insurance companies are basing their underwriting on the assumption that it is real. They are refusing to write policies on homes that are likely to be in danger from rising seas 20 years from now, even though the resale rate of the homes is so high that they could keep writing policies for another 10 years and still not have to pay out on 1 policy in 5, but that would be irresponsible. Unethical, as well, but that's never stopped anyone before. IMARANGER wrote on Jan 11^th, 2014 at 6:12pm: It is fairly natural to assume that the fair price for the pot is the fair value of the resources I needed to make the pot plus the fair value of my labor. IMARANGER wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 4:56pm: You were right this time, OnePercenter.� iliveyourdream13 wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 2:02pm: #bringbackreadingcomprehension
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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #2 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 9:15pm	Print Post
	twf centered ranger with rogue skills. Ditch longswords and save feat, use shortswords and ninja spy core to remain centered with shortsword. You wont need so many rogue levels. Do you have access to harper tree? if you do you could get int as a secondary stat for know the angels(and helps trapping). Take the 6th monk level for the free feat and access to core level 6s in enhancement trees. Run in legendary dreadnaught or divine crusader(shadowdancer is mostly for assassins). Take killer from assassin tree for dps boost. Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:36pm: Combat Expertise Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:36pm: Improved Feint Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:36pm: Two Weapon Defense Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:36pm: Power Critical ditch those feats. take empower healing once you get to 8 ranger levels. get precision(which will also have use when you manyshot). Maybe even maximize for your cure spells. depending on what gear you have for devotion lore and healing amp. 10/6/4rogue will serve you better for what you want. I would go 14 ranger for access to fom and cure serious. 14/2/2 to be exact.
	« Last Edit: Jul 6^th, 2015 at 9:16pm by Rubbinns »
	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #3 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 11:42pm	Print Post
	Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:36pm: Fairly new to DDO and this will be my boobies on these forums as well. I enjoy theory crafting, especially in a game like DDO where there are so many possible combinations and synergies. I am looking for some constructive criticism on a build idea I had. Honest feedback is appreciated but "Won't work" isn't exactly what I'm looking for. Perhaps "Won't work with that split. x/x/x would be a better split." Feedback I can use to improve the build is greatly appreciated. As well I will say that I have not reached maximum level yet. I've done quite a bit of research on the wiki and a whole lot of theorycrafting but my in-game knowledge is not very great. I prefer to plan out what I will do in a game like this where incorrect choices are essentially pitfalls. If there is a rather obvious reason that something I have included in the build wont work, I would greatly appreciate an explanation as to why. What is obvious to an experienced player may not be obvious to less experienced players. And now the build! General Idea is a TWF build that has quite a bit of sneak attack damage while getting free useful feats from ranger and maintaining good rogue skills for solo/versatality. Weapon selection will probably be Longsword/shortsword, although I'm not sure what the best selections are for this. I added in the Shadowdancer Destiny, but I don't really understand the Destinies yet, so it may not be correct or even make sense. 11 ranger/6 monk/3 rogue (though if your not a big fan of trapping, you can go 11 ranger/9 monk for Improved Evasion) Shortswords instead of longswords. Shuriken for ranged. Regular Elf instead of Drow Feats: 1: Dragonmark of Shadow 3: Weapon Focus - Pierce 6: Power Critical 9: Extend Spell 12: Improved Crit - Pierce 15: Master of Forms 18: Empower Healing 21: Overwhelming Crit 24: Grandmaster of Forms 26: Perfect TWF 27: Epic DR 28: Elusive Target 1M: Precision 2M: Shuriken Expertise 6M: 10k stars 2R: TWF, Rapid Shot 4R: Precise Shot 6R: ITWF, Manyshot 11R: GTWF, Imp Precise Shot 36 pts in Tempest (for Dance of Death) 23 pts in DWS for Killer 12 pts in Elf for displacement 6 pts in ninja (for Advanced Ninja Training) 3 pts leftover (probably take 1k cuts in tempest) (sadly, getting DoD, killer, sting, and displacement is more than 80 pts)
	« Last Edit: Jul 6^th, 2015 at 11:43pm by 5 Foot Step »
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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #4 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 11:51pm	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 11:42pm: 11 ranger/6 monk/3 rogue (though if your not a big fan of trapping, you can go 11 ranger/9 monk for Improved Evasion) Shortswords instead of longswords. Shuriken for ranged. Regular Elf instead of Drow Feats: 1: Dragonmark of Shadow 3: Weapon Focus - Pierce 6: Power Critical 9: Extend Spell 12: Improved Crit - Pierce 15: Master of Forms 18: Empower Healing 21: Overwhelming Crit 24: Grandmaster of Forms 26: Perfect TWF 27: Epic DR 28: Elusive Target 1M: Precision 2M: Shuriken Expertise 6M: 10k stars 2R: TWF, Rapid Shot 4R: Precise Shot 6R: ITWF, Manyshot 11R: GTWF, Imp Precise Shot 36 pts in Tempest (for Dance of Death) 23 pts in DWS for Killer 12 pts in Elf for displacement 6 pts in ninja (for Advanced Ninja Training) 3 pts leftover (probably take 1k cuts in tempest) (sadly, getting DoD, killer, sting, and displacement is more than 80 pts) If you're set on Drow though, then swap dragonmark for dodge, shuriken expertise for deflect arrows, and extend spell for quicken. Displacement is really nice, but not taking it frees up enough AP to get sting of the ninja and shadow veil: 36 pts in Tempest (for Dance of Death) 23 pts in DWS for Killer 13 pts in ninja (for sting of the ninja and shadow veil) 8 pts leftover

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #5 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:00am	Print Post
	you wont need shurikens and 10k when you have free manyshot. improved evasion is granted as soon as you take tier 5 in tempest and have either 9 ranger or 2 rogue/monk. displace mark is good call since I doubt he has clickies stacked up. get cure serious and fom. thank me later.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Grand Ex Member I Love Drama!	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #6 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:02am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:00am: you wont need shurikens and 10k when you have free manyshot. improved evasion is granted as soon as you take tier 5 in tempest and have either 9 ranger or 2 rogue/monk. displace mark is good call since I doubt he has clickies stacked up. get cure serious and fom. thank me later. Got to agree with this, and it's a friendlier build tactic for a newish player as well.
	« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:03am by Grand »

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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #7 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:59pm	Print Post
	Manyshot is awesome, but then you need to waste a feat on zen archery and build points on the 13 wis prereq or else it will suck.

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #8 - Jul 8^th, 2015 at 12:50am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:59pm: Manyshot is awesome, but then you need to waste a feat on zen archery and build points on the 13 wis prereq or else it will suck. Bow Str from ranger free feat. Improved Crit Ranged could be taken. 11 ranger levels will get IPS. Not the worst.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #9 - Jul 8^th, 2015 at 2:27am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 12:50am: Bow Str from ranger free feat. Improved Crit Ranged could be taken. 11 ranger levels will get IPS. Not the worst. I guess it's more pain in the ass than actually sucking but the main issue is dropping form when you equip the bow and then reactivating after. Still it's a DPS loss. Meanwhile there's no downside to shuriken on a max dex build. Dex to hit, dex to dmg, 2x dex extra attacks, ~2x wis extra attacks during 10k stars. Probably do more damage than shortswords, lol.

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #10 - Jul 8^th, 2015 at 2:55am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 2:27am: Meanwhile there's no downside to shuriken on a max dex build. Dex to hit, dex to dmg, 2x dex extra attacks, ~2x wis extra attacks during 10k stars. Probably do more damage than shortswords, lol. hahaha, yeah, prolly is.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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DoRayEgon Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1042 Joined: Apr 4^th, 2014	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #11 - Jul 8^th, 2015 at 10:12am	Print Post
	With what you are looking for you'll probably get more mileage out of 15 Ranger 5 Rogue and go Tier 5 in Assassin with daggers. Tempest isn't very attractive right now with no crit range or multipliers (unless you want to go 15 Paladin/5 Ranger).


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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #12 - Jul 8^th, 2015 at 10:34am	Print Post
	WSS is okay. 8 ranger/6 monk/6 rogue. Insight reflexes, IPS, Master stance, Zen archery and Gtwf. WSS, Precision and Zen archery as monk feats. With INT level ups, Harper and KTA. Without Cleaves you have to have Dance of Death. Max UMD, Heal and Concentration. IC ranged if you can fit it, Pulverizer + Blunt imbue for bow. I'd want Emp Healing and Quicken. Shadow Veil, Scroll Mastery and Exposing Strike. But holy shit APs are gonna be tight ( maybe impossible ). And yeah, SD is garbage, LD all the way. Twisted Cocoon, Balanced Attacks and Dance of flowers.
	« Last Edit: Jul 8^th, 2015 at 10:52am by Wipe »

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Wolfrin Fenris Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 7 Joined: Jul 6^th, 2015	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #13 - Jul 8^th, 2015 at 7:43pm	Print Post
	Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner - rl issues. First of all, thanks to everyone for the comments and advice, I wasn't expecting this many people to comment already but its appreciated. I'll try to address a few things I have questions about. OnePercenter wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 8:32pm: Needs moar cowbells... HA!� Rubbinns wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 9:15pm: twf centered ranger with rogue skills. Ditch longswords and save feat, use shortswords and ninja spy core to remain centered with shortsword. That's actually what I was going for. When I started theory crafting this I had chosen elf (Also considered helf) for all the racial enhancements available for longswords. I think I forgot to change it when I switched to drow for the higher ability scores. Rubbinns wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 9:15pm: You wont need so many rogue levels. Do you have access to harper tree? if you do you could get int as a secondary stat for know the angels(and helps trapping). 1. I do have access to the Harper Tree. For future reference, so far I have Drow unlocked and I am a VIP. 2. As far as Know the Angles goes, I planned on putting all my points into dex, so I'm not sure if the gains from Know the Angles would be worth the 9ap it would require spending. 3. I thought about going 6 monk for Shadow Veil in Ninja Spy but I couldn't find any Enhancement points to spare. 4. As for your feat advice, I don't really have any problem dropping any of those feats you mentioned, however, I don't see the reason to take empowered healing or maximize. This character isn't going to be healing others, or even likely himself, outside of potions. Are potions not sufficient at higher levels? Is there something I'm missing? 5. I do already have precision, though I could take it sooner perhaps. 6. Lastly, I wasn't sure how many rogue levels were necessary to keep trapping skills relevant and useful on elites while leveling (I only do elites) and for max level dungeons. You're saying less than 6 is possible, whats the minimum? As for everyone else that commented, I appreciate the comments but this quickly turned into a discussion on how to many a good monkcher. That's not really what this character is going for, in case the 30+ points in tempest wasn't clue enough. My idea for this build was a twf character with a ton of extra sneak attack damage, good solo ability, and good trapping skills. I don't plan on using ranged at all, and if I do I won't spend any feats/enhancements on empowering it. There's very few dc abilities in this build. Most of the damage and activated abilities are either auto hit or simply modify basic attacks but have no dc (atleast according to the wiki). That was also an intended focus for this character. With that additional knowledge, is there some particular reason this type of character won't do well? I.e. Lots of bosses are completely immune to sneak attack damage or getting close to certain bosses (melee range) is extremely unadvised or something of the like? I can see changing the level split, if the rogue levels aren't as necessary. Perhaps 11/6/3 Ranger/monk/rogue? My enhancement selection in Rogue only required third level anyways.


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #14 - Jul 8^th, 2015 at 8:05pm	Print Post
	Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 7:43pm: I don't see the reason to take empowered healing or maximize. This character isn't going to be healing others, or even likely himself, outside of potions. Are potions not sufficient at higher levels? Is there something I'm missing? Potions are bad. Unless you're cordovan. Then you're just bad if you're cordo. CSW and FoM will let you heal yourself and avoid holds, slippery surfaces, some webs, and command. Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 7:43pm: I wasn't sure how many rogue levels were necessary to keep trapping skills relevant and useful on elites while leveling (I only do elites) and for max level dungeons. You're saying less than 6 is possible, whats the minimu With ranger and monk getting enough skill points is feasible to trap with just one rogue level(making sure int is secondary stat-dont dump con-.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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WeHaveLived Abbot Raider Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 945 Joined: Apr 24^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #15 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:00am	Print Post
	Rubbinns wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 8:05pm: some webs Are there webs that FOM won't protect you from?


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #16 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:14am	Print Post
	WeHaveLived wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:00am: Are there webs that FOM won't protect you from? Non-magical ones maybe?

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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #17 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:26am	Print Post
	5 Foot Step wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:14am: Non-magical ones maybe? yes, because turbine . fom used to work but now you have to keep fireshield up.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #18 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:32am	Print Post
	Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 7:43pm: With that additional knowledge, is there some particular reason this type of character won't do well? not that it wont do well, but it will have less dps output compared to many builds. mainly because you are giving up any sort of critical range/multiplier increases that come with other melee classes. Lower prr than other builds using heavy armor and stalwart/defender stance. You can still hit high prr in pajamas but you will need past lives and stay in earth stance, twist in stand stone, and iron skin in shintao. Of course most of this doesnt matter if youre only going for a quick heroic tr once you hit lv 20. At that point I would only suggest improved evasion, high reflex, fom, and cure serious for your build. Displace mark will also be a boon against champions and mob dense quests.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Wipe VoD Slasher Offline Posts: 1917 Joined: Mar 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #19 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 5:27am	Print Post
	Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 8^th, 2015 at 7:43pm: As for everyone else that commented, I appreciate the comments but this quickly turned into a discussion on how to many a good monkcher. Well, you have 6 ranger levels and want to be centered. It just makes sense to improve on your "inherent" ranged option, otherwise there's not much point going with ranger at all, 10% off hand, Ram's and Dance of death are not reasons good enough. Monkcher would have Point Blank, Combat Archery, 10k stars, Slayer Arrow and full time ranged. Different twists and possibly destiny. Of course you don't have to use bow at all or maybe I just misunderstood the "theme", flavour or call it concept you were going for.


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Wolfrin Fenris Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 7 Joined: Jul 6^th, 2015	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #20 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 5:51am	Print Post
	Wipe wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 5:27am: Well, you have 6 ranger levels and want to be centered. It just makes sense to improve on your "inherent" ranged option, otherwise there's not much point going with ranger at all, 10% off hand, Ram's and Dance of death are not reasons good enough. To be honest, I took the ranger levels for the Two Weapon Fighting feats and for the increased BAB. Rogue and Monk BAB is somewhat lackluster for a melee character, as I understand it. As well, the Tempest enhancements did look very enticing to me. I've revised my build based on the feedback here. Quote: New rangermonkrogue 11/6/3 Ranger/Monk/Rogue Lawful Neutral Drow Level Order 1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Ranger . . . . 11. Monk . . . . . 16. Ranger 2. Ranger . . . . .7. Rogue. . . . . 12. Ranger . . . . 17. Monk 3. Ranger . . . . .8. Ranger . . . . 13. Ranger . . . . 18. Rogue 4. Monk . . . . . .9. Ranger . . . . 14. Monk . . . . . 19. Ranger 5. Ranger . . . . 10. Monk . . . . . 15. Monk . . . . . 20. Ranger Skills . . . . .Rg Rn Rn Mo Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Mo Mo Rn Rn Mo Mo Rn Mo Rg Rn Rn . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------ Disable . 4. 1. . .1 . . . .4 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . 1. 1. . .1 .5 .1 .1 .23 Open Lo . 4. 1. . .1 . . . .4 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . 1. 1. . .1 .5 .1 .1 .23 Search. . 4. 1. 1. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. . . . 3. 1. . . . 3. . . . 3. 1. 23 Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. . . . 3. 1. . . . 3. . . . 2. 2. 23 Diplo . . 4. . . . 3. . . . . . . . .3 .1 . . . .3 .3 . . 3. . . . . .20 Jump. . . 4. . . . . .1 .3 . . . . . . .6 . . 2. . . . 1. . . . . . . 17 Hide. . . 4. . .2 . . 2. 1. . . . 2. . . . 1. 2. . . . . . . . . . 1. 15 Move Si . 4. . .2 . . 2. 1. . . . 1. . . . 2. 2. . . . 1. . . . . . . 15 Listen. . 2. 1. 1. . . . 2. . .1 . . . . . . .1 . . . .1 . . . . . 1. 10 UMD . . . 4. 1. 1. . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . .10 Bluff . . 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Balance . 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Tumble. . 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------ . . . . .44. 9. 9. 7. 9. 9 11 .9 .9 .7 .7 .9 .9 .7 .7 .9 .7 11. 9. 9 Feats (Errors) .1. . . . : Toughness .2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead .3. . . . : Weapon Focus: Slashing .4 Monk . : Precision .6. . . . : Adept of Forms .8 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant .9. . . . : Two Weapon Defense 10 Monk . : Iron Will 11 Monk . : Path of Inevitable Dominion 12. . . . : Master of Forms 15. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing 17 Monk . : Great Fortitude 18. . . . : Grandmaster of Forms 19 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental Enhancements (80 AP) Tempest (45 AP) Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest [list=1] Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades Critical Accuracy III, Whirling Blades, Dexterity Critical Damage III, Elaborate Parry II, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades, Dexterity Evasive Dance II, A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III Deepwood Stalker (6 AP) Far Shot, Sneak Attack [list=1] Favored Defense: Protection I, Stealthy III Ninja Spy (18 AP) Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil [list=1] Sneak Attack Training, Faster Sneaking I Subtlety III, Sneak Attack Training Sneak Attack Training, Sting of the Ninja, Dexterity Assassin (11 AP) Knife in the Darkness [list=1] Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training Because others have misunderstood the concept or design intention of this character, I thought I would put an overview of what the character has at this point. Strong points at lv 20: 10d6 sneak attack damage. additional 1d8 damage on hit from Venomed blades. Maxed base values for Disable device, Open lock, search, and spot. Grandmastery of forms. GTWF. 125% ms while sneaking. Dance of Death for groups of mobs. Lastly Rubbinns wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 2:32am: Of course most of this doesnt matter if youre only going for a quick heroic tr once you hit lv 20. I actually had not considered this yet. What is the best option? Is there any benefit to fleshing out an epic destiny on a first life character or is it standard to simply TR a few lives and then do an epic destiny?


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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #21 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 6:00am	Print Post
	Short swords are piercing.

	Build links Endgame Gear Guide Cannith Crafting Planner link Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
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Wolfrin Fenris Korthos Resident Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 7 Joined: Jul 6^th, 2015	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #22 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 9:04am	Print Post
	Heh. That's embarrassing. Expected they'd be slashing for some reason. Well it doesn't affect much in the build. Guess I could go weapon focus piercing and double short sword or just go double kukri. I imagine the increased critical chance from kukri would be beneficial?


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kum-gulp VoD Slasher Offline I Love Tired Vault Memes! Posts: 1809 Joined: Jul 16^th, 2010	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #23 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 11:52am	Print Post
	They do look like slashing in-game. No stabby stabby


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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Multiclass Idea - Please Critique. Reply #24 - Jul 9^th, 2015 at 12:01pm	Print Post
	Wolfrin Fenris wrote on Jul 9^th, 2015 at 5:51am: Monk BAB they get full bab per class level if centered.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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