https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/99059447-Level-80-Boost


Quote:

I'm not opposed to Otto's boxes.  I use them to shortcut lives I don't like or level ranges where I don't like the quests or the build is in a weak point.

But I know a lot of people whine and don't like "p2win" or "pay not to play" features. 

I agree with you that it would probably be something that newer players would make use of as a game ages and feeling constantly behind is a problem.

I take issue with the usage of "pay2win" in this instance.

Exactly how are you "Winning"? DDO is not a competitive game. In every other instance(WoW, Guild Wars, Perfect World, etc) where things have been called out as p2w there is usually a heavy PvP element, and buying stuff either gets you there faster or gives you an advantage over other players.

How do you call it paying to "win" in a game that has no win condition and does not pit you against other players?

Wipe wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 1:35pm:


I think that's the thing most people don't get about DDO: the ENTIRE GAME is the end-game thanks to the TR mechanic.

Wipe wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 2:04pm:


I wish they would have the balls to put some content out there that is virtually unable to be completed without proper character building, improvement, gearing, and strategy and coordination.  But that ship has sailed.  Both for Turbine and the player base.

Asheras wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 2:24pm:


Some of the latest quest packs are more difficult than the other quests at the same level. There is a noticeable difference in difficulty between the Archons chain and GH walkups, on Heroic Elite mobs have like 3-4 times more HP, and being spammed by the abishais blasts without evasion must be quite painful (haven't experienced it myself because I always have evasion, but i've seen other people get killed in seconds).

TL:DR

It's pay to win when I traded duped scales for two, then used them 40+ times each. I didn't pay shit, other than my VIP monthly.

This is totally different.  Unlike DDO, there is no re-incarnation in GW2.  Once you hit 80, you're done forever.  BAM.  You don't need to continuously eat Otto's to max out your character.  Also, a lot of content starts at level 80.  Leveling up is more like a tutorial.

Asheras wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 8:51am:

Don't be so mean with Fag Master she got rid of Nignog for you right, didn't she? 

Frank wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 3:40pm:


But when does this ever happen? There are 3, maybe 4 raids, total, that require 1 or 2 players to be able to complete a highly specific "job" (shadow kiter on ToD, crystal poper on Shroud/LShroud, etc). And, yeah, a 28pt, first-life character can't do those jobs. But there's also 11 other slots in the raid for someone who CAN do them, and if you are pugging, odds are no one is getting turned away.

The only time I can really see the gimp first-lifer being turned away is from a hardcore raiding guild that's organizing LE content on the regular.

Frankly, I think store-bought mana potions and spirit cakes are considerably more "P2W" than ottos boxes, since they could easily let you complete content you otherwise wouldn't be able to handle.

Mana pots and cakes are worse for the game because they trivialize content.

Ottos boxes don't affect the content challenge level when you do actually run content.  Past lives are much less valuable than unlimited mana and unlimited resurrection.

Frank wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 4:29pm:


I'd say a few past lives (and build points, if we are comparing to a base 32 point build) are less valuable than unlimited mana.  And let's not use Korthos as the measuring stick.  Past lives and extra build points are magnified at level 1.  +1 or +3 to damage, for example from Monk PL, at level 1 is somewhere between a 20-30% improvement in damage.  Whereas, at level 25-30, it is maybe 1%.  Anything under level 12, except maybe TOEE on Heroic Elite, isn't even in the discussion.  The content is already trivial without past lives or mana pots or rez cakes. 

Challenging content would be the more recent additions in heroic (Curse the Sky, Creeping Death, Larcener, Search and Rescue, etc) or LE content or higher end EE content.

In any challenging content, unlimited mana and unlimited ressurrections are more likely to get a mana using class through the content to completion than a pile of past lives.  Raids aren't necessarily a fair evaluation criteria because rez cakes don't work there. 

Let's take ToEE end fight.  On a sorc, wizard, cleric, favored soul, or druid (non wolf), would you prefer a stack of mana pots and rez cakes on a 32 point build or heroic completionist with no mana pots and only a jibbers blade if you had to ensure you could complete that end fight?  What about WGU on EE?  Think about it in a group vs. solo. 

There is a reason most of the major solo/duo achievements in game have been done by caster classes using unlimited mana.  Unlimited mana is game breaking in terms of balance. 

Frank wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 5:21pm:



We do still have the issue of how do you quantify it as "winning"? The game isn't a competition.

I listed mana pots and rez cakes because they'd let you complete content easier. Past lives don't help you complete content, but getting to rez yourself infinitely(at about 50 cents a rez) does. Mana pots do because you can not worry at all about build or mana effiency, just chug pots and use everything hightened/maxmmized/magnified/extended/quickened/etc/etc/etc.

But I still wouldn't even call that "winning" because this game has no win-condition, at least not as far as the other players are concerned. You getting to solo/duo a raid doesn't mean you "won" and I "lost", it means you did something fun, and I can go do it too.