There are some perks in FvS. It's got HP, SP, Ref, Wis to damage, and the 2 +2 feats. These are nice things...you give up 3 enchant DC, Mass Charm, Mind Fog, Symbol of Persuasion, and Symbol of Stunning though. That is the bulk of the enchantment arsenal there on an enchant specced character. Probably FvS is the way to go if you want to focus more on pew pew though.

Flav wrote on Oct 4^th, 2017 at 2:46pm:


You're right that healing spec isn't needed for low reapers.  So don't take the Healing Domain, because it is completely redundant.  Also the Good domain is pretty useless for a light spammer despite the +2 Light Spell Power/level even if SLA BB and even SLA deific vengeance are decent SLAs.  You want the SLAs fron Sun or the DCs from a different domain instead. 

Melee is still a flavor build, but if you have a melee cleric you'll still be improving it just by picking the War domain and rolling on.

But you don't need anyone to tell you these things, right?

I still think the pew pew version is 10FvS/10Monk. You aren't casting anything but heals and buffs primarily. Maybe dots on bosses

QuantumFX wrote on Oct 5^th, 2017 at 7:06pm:


11 AP from racial PL means that doing AA through the elf now only costs 3 of your 80 AP.  That offers a lot more flexibility. 

Most all the racial trees look a lot more appealing when the enhancements are free or you can access tier 4 for 5-7 AP spend. 

Hell, a dragonborn can now get +3 spell pen, 100 SP,  and +3 to evocation DC's for 18 AP, 11 of which are free.  (You get some HP in there, some fire spell power and caster levels if you want, also).  For 20, (net cost 9 AP) you can have wings, too. 

A Deep Gnome can have permanent blur, stone skin SLA, 20 spellcraft, wand and scroll mastery.  Some PRR, some MRR, some wis or int.  Al for free.

The Racial AP are power creep, sure.  But they also make the racial decision more nuanced.  What was basically a starting stats discussion is now much more interesting.

Rubbinns wrote on Oct 6^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:


True.  Human used to be the "Master Race" with their extra feat, extra skill points, and the pre-nerf racial action boosts. 

Now that they nerfed the action boosts, you are always at a stat disadvantage over another race and very few feats are powerful enough to offset everything else you are giving up.  They don't suck, but they are less dominant, for sure. 

some nice options: 

On a ranged build: You can get 20% Hamp, 2d6 of ranged sneak dice and dim door via dragonmark for free.

On a tankish build:  You can get 15% shield AC, Dim Door, 20% Hamp, and 20 extra HP unconcious range and +10 PRR when under 50% health. 

Not too shabby.  I like that free dim door.  I always use the human feat on the dragonmark when doing human PL's.  It is useful in leveling content.  Not sure if it is worth it for an at cap final build.

crunch wrote on Oct 7^th, 2017 at 5:52am:

human is still fine, it's that I see other races as better choices for almost any class. Humans still have their uses.

The +3 surge can be matched or surpassed by dwarf training (if using axes, picks, or hammers), + tactics increase, and shit ton of hps. Suppose if going with khopesh, bastard sword, short sword, sos, or falchion then human is still great. Possibly great xbow 18/x or 20 pure builds. It's the hamp, a feat, and a 1 ap m/r power boost that makes humans really good. The total versatility of the race in offering such a large variety of useful abilities is what makes it desirable. Look at orc, for an opposite example, and despite it getting a huge str push, and weapon damage increase in the tree, it still falls way behind other races when everything is taken into account.

Still, I'm not sure any build would want to spend 18(8 if full racial) ap for +3 surge to 4 stats. Slight increases like that are really only good when trying to hit high dcs, say, like, comboing kta+str, or kta, str, + cha for pdk training, and even then it's only 3 stats at most, that a build would wish to action boost surge.