Barkabout wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:



I hadn't seen that version of the pic.
Shit those guys know how to party.
Look at the room pumping!

Turdbine will be in the top 10 most desired employers next year, you just wait and see......

raybob wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 5:00pm:


There's not enough People in the PC... Any 'official leak' would be hunted down with Extreme Prejudice.

I don't think the PC helps or hurts the game in any way.

They did not (to my eyes) help make anything better. Maybe they did, but it's always "we can't talk about it NDA" or "Well I know something but  I can't even hint at what it is. Take my word for it!"
So to me, absolutely nothing was accomplished.

As for who would be on the PC next time? Who cares. The people they should pick they won't. And even if they picked them it wouldn't matter because they don't take suggestions into account. People who really enjoy playing the game, even though they bitch about it non stop, and really understand it are not well liked on the mother boards. Because they are critical. But Turbine can't handle that. Either the devs' egos are too large to listen, or too fragile to take criticism.

Besides we heard from some PC members, that things hit live without even getting their input on them. What's the point of a focus group or whatever they're supposed to be if you don't even use them for what (apparently) was their purpose? It doesn't make any sense.

Serious feedback:

1) The NDA was not a good thing. 

It should be removed or at least reserved for specific sensitive topics.  The PC should have been able to act as a bridge between the devs and the community.  One of the goals was for the PC to gather good suggestions from the community, and this failed because of the restrictions on communication. 

2) The PC should primarily sample from highly skilled and knowledgeable players. 

The current game balance is at an all time low, and that's mostly a result of changes made this year.  Necropolis and thunderforged gear dominate every gear slot and armor changes/heal amp changes make this game slightly more challenging than Candyland.  These things should have been run through knowledgeable players who can predict how changes to mathematical formulas affect gameplay. 

A lot of knowledgeable players did raise a stink on Lamma forums about the armor changes, but were drowned out in the noise.  I think there's a larger problem that game skill and knowledge are not respected.  The bar is set so low that anyone can solo the hardest content on EE.  And when turbine does try to raise the bar (e.g. champions) all the casuals that sit on the forum all day cry out until the bar gets lowered again.  And the result is that players continue to leave. 

I do think the idea of the PC is a good one and probably cheaper than Mournlands: turbine needs a focused player voice to help them direct game changes.  But the lack of communication with the larger community and the poor sampling and restrictions on recruiting knowledgeable players prevent the PC from guiding DDO in the right direction. 

Flav wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 7:01pm:



I guess the real question is: will you stay on if given the choice?

Or are you not allowed to tell me because of NDA?     

As for the PC, I will apply for it again, mostly in the hope that
a) Turdbine really is stupid enough to let me in, and
b) My presence might/maybe/possibly prevent some dipshit from getting in.

Barkabout wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:


larping, cosplay, gerbling, not much difference really

NOTSunnyshadow wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 9:29am:

Wanesa. He gave them the rights to use it and yet they managed to fuck that up. Great improvement on the social panel.

AtomicMew wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

So much this.

Barkabout wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 8:47pm:


whew! I am glad there was an expert on all three to explain it to me, that was close.

AtomicMew wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:


yes X 3.

AtomicMew wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:


At first pass this seems like a reasonable suggestion and I felt myself agreeing with you.

AtomicMew wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:


I even agree with you in this.
The loot from the U24 content was irrelevant before it even launched.
Not saying everything has to be Uber, but it's not even kinda useful.
Simply wasted development, or a lost opportunity.
Without interesting loot, no-one will run that content except for favour (not sure you even need to do that).

AtomicMew wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:
 
And then we get to this bit and my doubts emerge.
By "highly skilled and knowledgeable" you mean you and your crew right?
So the question becomes - how do you objectively determine this?
Must be able to complete EE WGU in under 14 mins?  Something else?

I partially agree with your sentiments.
There is definitely a consultative role for highly skilled and knowledgable players in tailoring end game content, loot and mechanics - I would probably also throw in TR/ETR as well.

But your attitude comes across as Elitist.  "Only we know how the game should be played, not the noobs who can now complete OUR Elite content" is the underlying message coming through, intended or not.
Champions were a problem for new players - not a discussion I will revisit here, but mocking those who commented just shows your colours.  Again the core problem was in the implementation.  The Champions concept would have benefited greatly from PC feedback I suspect.

I would posit this question.  Given your experience, knowledge and gear, would you be well placed to represent the casual, low level new player?  Could you even relate to their concerns and challenges?
New people to the game who are its lifeblood and likely primary source of income?

The PC was meant to be a representative sample of the community and this should include the skilled and knowledgable as much as the "new and enthusiastic". To the middle of the road players like myself who aren't noobs but we aren't legendary either, but play the game, spend some money and try to enjoy it. 

This game could choose to cater just to raid/end game elite and it would die.  It could choose to cater to newbs and it would die too.  And there probably aren't enough middle of the road players to sustain it either.
Hence the need to have broad appeal and to manage the transition from curious FTP to long time customer (new content is not the solution to this major problem Thaz).

Listening just to the skilled and knowledgable would be disastrous as Flav suggests.  Not because they bear any ill will to the game, but because they're focus is on the parts that interest them and could make recommendations detrimental to the rest of the game.  An argument could likewise be made if Turdbine just listened to any one group in DDO.

AtomicMew wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:


And I do agree with your sentiments here.
The PC concept is a good one, the implementation probably wasn't because the mandate definitely wasn't clear and they don't have the ear of the Producer(s) to actually make decisions.
You have a collection of devs with no cohesion making individual decisions that affect all parts of the game.  Some of those devs have little experience in actually playing the game, which makes this an odd process.

The PC should be channelled through a Producer who decides what is communicated to them and listens to the feedback and then makes the most astute decision having heard the balance of arguments.  Sometimes they will need the advice, other times they would like to but due to reasons like cost or time have to not use it. As you suggest, communication is critical and it sounds like feedback was sorely lacking.

The current process is flawed, because the devs just ignore the advice if it does not suit their personal agendas, to the detriment of the game.
And why have a PC if you're not going to utilise it fully.
They need to internally change the way it works.

But they won't and all this discussion is moot.
I lament the lost opportunity more than anything.
Good IP, loyal fan base, working player-developer interface wasted by a distinctly unprofessional developer missing any kind of leadership and cohesion.

Quote:


I'm a casual player nowadays.  Probably ~30 minutes a week since U24 dropped.  Mostly play by myself, a few close friends (most of whom don't play anymore) and my guild (who are currently just as casual).  I honestly don't have any "crew" to speak of. 

As for turbine picking out which players are knowledgeable, to me there are some obvious and easy examples even in the vault: munkenmo, shadow, lelouch, harhar, rubbins, from the motherforums, knight_slayer, xtethx and a whole bunch of others, I could go on and on.  I don't know any of those people personally, yet I think most people would agree that all the above are at least pretty decent at this game. 

The point is, you don't need to perform rocket surgery to get players who know WTF they are talking about in regards to game mechanics.  There are a ton of awesome players who were way better suited compared to some extremely questionable PC picks.  If someone at Turbine would spend just a fraction of time reading the build forums and lamma forums for understanding rather than finding ways to infract people, we could have an awesome PC that could help steer the game in a fun direction and could help get the larger community involved and excited about upcoming changes. 

Of course, that presupposes that Turbine would be willing to have open communications with the PC (which flav suggests is not the case), but those are the two things that I think need to change.