5 Foot Step wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 4:23am:

Yeah, no. I'm going with the record breaking videos. You can go with your math theory and assumption of a player who builds and tests for solo records ddint try a gxbow. Not once, ever, at all. Youre out of your fucking mind. Look, just because youre wrong doesnt mean you have to say shit like that.

5 Foot Step wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 4:23am:


How will that translate to the Tor record, the LoB record, the MA record. All of which are on a light repeater rogue?

I thought it was obvious but for paladins repeaters are better all the time. It requires 18 rogue for gxbows to come close to repeaters if you have a needle that's better than any weapon 23-27 so gxbows might be better 18-22 (assuming pure) but 1-17, 23-27 repeaters are going to win.

I don't personally care about 28 but mortal fear alone is probably enough to put repeaters ahead but there are several other on hit affects that favor better RoF over base damage.

Nubbinns isn't going to listen to me regardless of what tests I do.

Maybe he should think for himself instead of fapping to a ddo youtube channel? Given the infatuation, why doesn't he go to Khyber and ask Goldylocks about crossbows?

there is no question gold is a min maxer, and a fantastic player.

The problem with DDO is that people (and I've been guilty of this before but try not to be) to say "this thing X is max DPS". Somewhat to 5 Foots point, nothing is max DPS until it's put into practice one way or another.

That means:

What are you fighting?
How many of them are there?
Are you AoE'ing or just single target dumping bursts?
DO they have fort?
Do you ever miss besides a one?
Do you get all of your proc damage all of the time?
Do you have enough Defenses to be doing DPS 100% of the time?
How often are you having to stop and heal versus do damage and move advantaegously?
How time does your buffing take?
Over the period time for which your objective takes does your buffing overall decrease TTK or increase it to do to animation.activation drag?

These are things that Rubbins thinks are accounted for in a speed record, which in some ways they are because GOld probably tried that FoT speed 30 times before he get all the gear, timing, boosts, buffs, and the actual run with some luck just right. This is something Rubbins seems to FAIL to understand.

A speed run means, generally, a highly tuned, generally well practiced, successful run at something with the single objective of finishing it as fast as you can by yourself. It can certainly highlight some important things like how surivivable a certain build and layout can be while putting out it's maximum DPS at the same time, under very specific conditions.

But what a speed run REALLY proves, is how good a player is at taking a certain set of stats, class abilities, and gear and applying them to the speed run quest at hand. I've tried to argue this in various ways in other threads to no avail against Rubbins, he doesn't seem to want to acknowledge the in-applicability of speed runs to general play. Agree to disagree, but thats my biggest problem as someone who makes builds and offers them up for others to try in game, not for solo speed runs. Gold is without question better at solo speed running than me, regardless of character. Because he does it all the time and gives a shit. I've done it once, and posted the results on the Vault. Its not my thing.

Playing the game in actuality, is absolutely nothing like running a solo speed run where you burn every resource you have with abandon to survive and finish as fast as possible.

It's not applicable to normal or even leet end game group gameplay. It's as simple as that.

harharharhar wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:07pm:

correct, but in this case the tool that speed runner is using is Light repeater. If gxbow were better as 5dicks in his mouth states then they would use it. But his entire assertion is that a whole guild of speed runners that set records are all doing it wrong. Which is so laughably retarded to such an extent that only a pompous douchebag with an ego would claim something like that. I mean, the guy went as far as trying to state : 5 Foot Step wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 4:23am:


The sheer amount of delusion in that guy's head is severe

AtomicMew wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 3:47pm:

probably not. IDK. hvy is 1d2 higher, but light has slight better RoF. And on 20 rogue hvy requires a feat.

Rubbinns wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 3:54pm:


No they get proficiency with the level 12 core

Rubbinns wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 3:17pm:


Again, completely depends on the situation.

GxBs excel in zero Fort situations. because they crit harder and more often with a negligibly slower RoF, and higher base damage and SA from Mechanic. Not being an expert on xbows I can't say for certain, but I imagine against zero fort enemies that GxBs are superior.

EE FoT is far from a zero Fort situation (though its variable based on your ability to bypass fort and skill at maintaining constant use of Assassins trick for example).

Therefore, no one has produced math for an EE Solo FoT that definitively shows that Repeaters or GxB's are better. If I had to guess, I would say that Gold either did the math or just ballparked that higher RoF over the 10 minutes on that particular mix of red names would be more efficacious than less hits but with more and bigger crits, mitigated by a reduced crit rate from high fort undead mobs.

This would be my guess.

It doesn't make 5Foot an idiot, but he isn't making his point very well as I understand it, which is that in general and outside of high fort mob situations GxB's mathematically are comfortably ahead of Repeaters, with 18+ levels of Rogue.

Rubbinns wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 5:13pm:



either I was misleading or you read me wrong:

EE FoT is high fort situation
GxB's are best in zero Fort siutations
Repeaters are probably best in EE FoT since their damage comes proportionally more from number of hits instead of total damage per hit (as a function of criticals)

AtomicMew wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 5:20pm:



Yeah 4th core is heavy prof. 3rd is light. Checked in-game mech tree.

ah, haven't watched the Tor video. Tor is mostly giants with low fort though, so yeah GxB might be better.

Maybe he just doesn't have a fully upgraded TF GxB?

5 Foot Step wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 4:23am:


afk squatting ddovaultvault .com .org .boobies and .diaf