Yes, it's incontrovertible that you have no clue what overall means.  Hilariously, it's right there in your own spreadsheet, which is immensely entertaining to see you put that much time into proving the wrong thing.

Here's a simple question for you.  What's the difference between the total avoidance chance with and without ET on your spiffy spreadsheet?

Well from my perspective there's no disagreement about that, the disagreement is that originally Digimonk tried to argue the ORDER of operations matters (it does not), and that secondarily he is arguing that the absolute change of 1% is important (it is not) in calculating the benefit of the feat Elusive Target.

Elusive target even on an exceptionally high dodge/incorp/concealed character still prevents exactly 5% more hits than not having Elusive Target. This is the only thing that matters in considering the feat vis a vis the protection if offers.

He is also trying to have a semantic argument that when I said "overall" addition of 5% dodge I was somehow contradicting the math shown above going from 20% to 21%. He seems to think that makes me wrong. It doesn't of course, you do still get an overall 5% increased ability to not get hit with the feat.

He might be conflating overall and absolute, but that doesn't have shit to with me.

SweetKitten wrote on Feb 21^st, 2018 at 4:12am:

No, I understand both.  Hurhurhur however doesn't seem to be able to spare a brain cell to acknowledge his misuse of the adjective, overall.   When I pointed it out, he went full retard and has been doing olympic level spinning ever since.

It's weird, because I think he understands the math but he just can't seem to wrap his head around the fact that he was wrong due to an incorrect adjective.  Amusingly, he got all butthurt and responded with the internet tough guy come at me bro shtick which just made him look even more stupid.

I think I confused the poor sod even further by acknowledging that the only way his statement would have been correct is if he was speaking of the literal change rather than the overall increase or if ET was the sole source of avoidance on the build.  As you stated, he cannot seem to grasp the difference between overall (absolute) and literal (relative).

He apparently misunderstood that, too and latched onto it in an effort to avoid admitting his mistake like a fat kid holds a donut.  For some stupid reason he persists in thinking that I don't know that the order of operations on avoidance checks does not make any difference overall, but that it does make a difference in relative benefit.

Either way, there's nothing else I can add to this since he's just going in logical circles in his own imaginary world where he's never wrong.

SweetKitten wrote on Feb 21^st, 2018 at 4:12am:


In a vacuum, Elusive Target is 5% absolutely. It is only 1% when it is relative to other things.

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 21^st, 2018 at 4:33pm:


Hmm, yes i stand corrected.
How about "a selective chance of 5% leads to a 1% total gain"

harharharhar wrote on Feb 21^st, 2018 at 5:27pm:

I calculated EXACTLY what you said.  Shit, I even quoted it for you.   

Not sure how you consider that cherry picking unless you were cherry picking in your statement that I quoted. 

Quote:


Want to go with chunks of 1000 incoming damage instead of 100? Easy, divide the results by 10. Interestingly this makes Elusive Target the difference between 3 hits to kill and 4 hits to kill. 

harharharhar wrote on Feb 21^st, 2018 at 2:19pm:


Not that these things are fungible, but my math indicates that (theoretically) buffing an existing miss chance by 5% would be better than adding a separate 5% chance.

Displacement + 44 dodge + 10 ghostly + Elusive Target = 76.1 % avoidance = .2394 = 41.8 attacks to kill
Displacement + 49 dodge + 10 ghostly = 77.05% avoidance = 0.2295 = 43.6 attacks to kill

Counting up hits avoided is a ridiculous way to model this. No one takes 10,000 hits, or even 1000 hits over a period of time that is relevant.

If we had 1,000,000 HP and quests took 7 hours to complete and we sustained 1000's of hits, yours might be a valid argument. As it stands, it is not.

All of the bickering aside, the deep dive into avoidance is clearly very interesting.

Digimonk wrote on Feb 21^st, 2018 at 7:41pm:


First of all, this from the guy saying to take Wind through the trees, which is just embarrassing and you should go delete your comment now. You have NO leg to stand on, your suggestions we're insanely bad. As it stands, this is still by far the best feat to take at this level. Not only does it provide ~5% dodge, but also ~5% dodge chance. No other feat comes close to that at that level for this build.

You're still a mongoloid for suggesting to not take it.

Moreover, If you would have received 100 hits in a quest, this would still help you avoid 5 of them. Depending on the order, strength, and continuity of those hits, that is either irrelevant or very important. Wind Through the Trees or a worthless Dire Charge DC would still be worse.

Also, don't forget when you tried to tell 5FS that the order in which these checks are made is relevant. You've made like 2 or 3 reputation destroying wrong claims in this thread.

If adding this feat is extremely slightly less than exactly 5% dodge (and say more like adding 3 %or 4% dodge and dodge cap based on other defenses, quest length, max HP, and reaper skull setting), then so be it. It's still 1000x better than any of your other garbage suggestions.

5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 12:21pm:


Great build, I've capped and played the MP version missing only the raid shuri. I still miss the enormous burst for red names/champs/reapers/a nice long hallway with mobs lined up running in Fury, but there's no question the DPS is redonko on the LD version.

Have you considered trying to slot +7 Insight deadly and forgoing KTA altogether? When I do my Int item swap macro for KTA I'm getting like 54'ish Int for +11 damage, I'm wondering if you could get more putting those AP somewhere else. It's probably not worth it, but maybe someone smarter than me can optimize that.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 2:10pm:

spite is stupidly broken. takes about 10 seconds to stack fully while using 10k. it not only doubles the base damage of any other star, but the proc is higher than the base. it's around 3-4k per shuri on non-crits ( including sneak attack).