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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) Purey Shuri (Read 132391 times)
harharharhar
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #225 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 6:38pm
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SpaceGoat wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 5:40pm:
+1 for value added comment


Blow it out of your loose asshole

I DONT NESC. HATE YOU
« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 7:24pm by harharharhar »  
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5 Foot Step
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #226 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 7:17pm
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:10pm:
Have you considered trying to slot +7 Insight deadly and forgoing KTA altogether? When I do my Int item swap macro for KTA I'm getting like 54'ish Int for +11 damage, I'm wondering if you could get more putting those AP somewhere else. It's probably not worth it, but maybe someone smarter than me can optimize that.


Hmm. I could drop Fleetfoot Necklace and swap the slaver ring for a slaver neck (slotting Wis on it instead of false life.). Then slot Ring of Nightfall for 7 Insightful Deadly.

Lose 5 insightful deadly, 3 Wis, 68 false life, 20 natural armor, wind thru the trees.

Gain 4 stat points (into con), 3 ap.

Only other way I can think of gives up the slaver set to equip The Masque, drop Negotiator's Specs, equip Perfect Pinnacle, drop slaver ring:

Lose 2 artifact rp, 2 artifact deadly, 5 insightful deadly, Linguistics 10%, Diplomacy +22, Quality Diplomacy +5, Subtle Target, False Life 68, Hide 22, Devotion Lore, Q Con 4

Gain 4 stat points (into con), 3 ap, soundproof

This might be the way to go because that one thing probably isn't going to last, but they both look like shit from here.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 6:38pm:
Blow it out of your loose asshole


That seems uncalled for.
« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 7:17pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #227 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 7:22pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 7:17pm:
That seems uncalled for.



You're right I thought it was Digi I didn't look closely enough.

RESCINDED
« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 7:24pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #228 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:20pm
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 6:35pm:
well....

Morninglord 5[w+2] v Spite 7[w+3]

5*2.5+2=22.5+15=37.5
7*2.5+3=38.5+15=53.5

Hardly a doubling over Morninglord shuriken (if I got the math correct), but obviously a nice boost.

But I do know the DoT is very strong, but that has nothing to do with the build, because any shuri build can use it to same effect (actually greater effect if the other build has less base or SA damage, smh)

I am actively raiding for this broken shuriken, don't worry.

https://image.ibb.co/n41EoH/www.png


average of 1d2 is 1.5. Math is FUCKING HARD. What rubbins was saying is that Spite triples the weapon die of pre RL shurikens. 4.5 vs 1.5.
« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:21pm by Sergod »  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #229 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 1:24am
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 11:51am:
First of all, this from the guy saying to take Wind through the trees, which is just embarrassing and you should go delete your comment now. You have NO leg to stand on, your suggestions we're insanely bad. As it stands, this is still by far the best feat to take at this level. Not only does it provide ~5% dodge, but also ~5% dodge chance. No other feat comes close to that at that level for this build.

You're still a mongoloid for suggesting to not take it.

Bunch of incorrect jibber jabber based on incorrect claims by you only further proving you can't see the forest for the trees.


harharharhar wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 11:51am:
Moreover, If you would have received 100 hits in a quest, this would still help you avoid 5 of them. Depending on the order, strength, and continuity of those hits, that is either irrelevant or very important. Wind Through the Trees or a worthless Dire Charge DC would still be worse.

On a toon with a total 80% avoidance sans Elusive Target, you would have to get attacked 500 times to get 100 hits checked against Elusive Target assuming it gets checked after all normal avoidance rolls (which the text descriptions makes it sound like it does).  Congrats on avoiding 5 extra attacks out of every 500.  What's that work out to?  Like 1 or 2 extra hits avoided per mission?  Yeah, you're right... that's amazing.   Roll Eyes


harharharhar wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 11:51am:
Also, don't forget when you tried to tell 5FS that the order in which these checks are made is relevant. You've made like 2 or 3 reputation destroying wrong claims in this thread.

Oh, now I see.  You care about Vault cred.  Maybe you can buy some through Paypal for your busted ass reputation.

Re: 5FS, he misunderstood the context of my comment, which admittedly, I probably could have been more clear on but in general, he is pretty reasonable in his posts and not a raging shit worm like you, so I didn't see the need in debating it with him.  You should stop hiding behind his comments like a little bitch and stand on your own merits.  Actually, given the massive comprehension failures in your recent posts, you probably shouldn't.


harharharhar wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 11:51am:
If adding this feat is extremely slightly less than exactly 5% dodge (and say more like adding 3 %or 4% dodge and dodge cap based on other defenses, quest length, max HP, and reaper skull setting), then so be it. It's still 1000x better than any of your other garbage suggestions.

Nice spin attempt to cover being dead wrong after spending pages claiming you were the second coming of math jesus...  I'll refer you to the above statement about avoiding 5 extra hits out of every 500 above.  You care about vault cred and then you claim some stupid crap like that is 1000x better than other options?  1000 eh?  By all means, show us the math to back that one up, Einstein wannabe.

1 out of 100.  1%.  1 extra avoided hit out of 100 attacks.  That's not very useful.  The only thing lower than the usefulness of that is your IQ apparently. 

The cooldown makes WTtT pretty mediocre, too, but since it can trigger on hits and misses, it will likely trigger more than ET on a toon that has >80% total avoidance chance.  I never claimed it was amazing.  I just said it was as good or better than Elusive Target.  Even so, I personally wouldn't take this feat any more than I would take Elusive Target.

« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:10pm by Digimonk »  
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harharharhar
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #230 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 11:52am
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Sergod wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:20pm:
average of 1d2 is 1.5. Math is FUCKING HARD. What rubbins was saying is that Spite triples the weapon die of pre RL shurikens. 4.5 vs 1.5.


Yup good catch.

Doesn't change any of the important points however, which are:
-Morninglord is way more damage than pre-Ravenloft shuri's
-That Spite is not double the damage of morningstar.

Spite is probably double the base damage of other shuri's, before other mods are taken into account. Once you add in deadly, +40 damage from ~100 Dex, Insightful damage from KTA, and other assorted sources however even pre-Ravenloft shuri's are probably more like 40% behind not 100%, because base damage isn't actually 100% of the total physical damage of the shuri. Obviously Spite takes this another leg further because of it's extra 2[w]'s and extra base point of damage.

He should specify that he meant all the shurikens no one would ever use since Morninglord is so much more damage. It's an important point for people reading about throwers to understand: they should be using Morninglord until they get Spite, except in non-undead heavy quests and high reaper skulls where they should probably use Dawnbringer.

  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #231 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 1:28pm
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 11:52am:
He should specify that he meant all the shurikens no one would ever use

no one would ever use.

harharharhar wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 11:52am:
non-undead heavy quests and high reaper skulls where they should probably use Dawnbringer.

you just said no one would ever use...

for me, spite is at 10, and morning lord is 8. that is 45 for spite vs 28 for morninglord.  morning would need 6 damage less to be behind by double. my bad, fam.

dawnbringer is way behind, like every other star before RL, at 9w 1d2= 13. bit more than double for morning vs dawn, and more than triple for spite vs dawn. 


With blitz, kta, and prowess melee boost running, spite is around 200 more per front number than dawn, and around 100 more than morning.
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2018 at 1:29pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #232 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 2:08pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 1:28pm:
With blitz, kta, and prowess melee boost running, spite is around 200 more per front number than dawn, and around 100 more than morning.


Which isn't even close to to double unless I'm missing something?

pre-RL = Spite(x) - 200...what is x? 1000? 800? What's the fair number for the denominator here? It needs to be an extremely lowely 400 for it to be double the physical damage, which in reaper 10 still might make a case for Dawnbringer, or no?

Not trying to slam you here dude, just figure which shuriken's to use when.

Rubbinns wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 1:28pm:
dawnbringer is way behind, like every other star before RL, at 9w 1d2= 13. bit more than double for morning vs dawn, and more than triple for spite vs dawn


Again, base shuri damage is itself a fraction of the total physical damage, given Dex bonus, deadly, enhancements, PL's, etc. Important part of this math. I think you did a good job of summing it up with the front number calculation, but still would like to know your assumption for the front number of Spite for a complete comparison. I don't have it so I would just be estimating.

PS:
There are some reasons to use LGS however, I've noticed a lack of people causing Vulnerability on targets lately, so I'm swapping to Vacuum at intervals to keep that up for instance. Is it worth it? In a raid I think so since so many people benefit from the +20%. In a party? Harder to say.

ALso occasionally using Radiance LGS to get SA damage quickly, especially solo (don't have raid SS, and don't have all the gear to use Silent Avenger and Mists set yet, so still using Litany+TOEE set+Slavers Set).
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2018 at 2:15pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #233 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:02pm
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 2:08pm:
There are some reasons to use LGS however, I've noticed a lack of people causing Vulnerability on targets lately, so I'm swapping to Vacuum at intervals to keep that up for instance. Is it worth it? In a raid I think so since so many people benefit from the +20%. In a party? Harder to say.

Yep. vacuum is important. I usually swap to lgs to keep bosses/portals stacked for groups. I rarely solo.


harharharhar wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 2:08pm:
It needs to be an extremely lowely 400 for it to be double the physical damage, which in reaper 10 still might make a case for Dawnbringer, or no?

I'm getting 600 on dawn, 800 on spite. outside of reaper, no vac stacked ( using ship canon ).

harharharhar wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 2:08pm:
ALso occasionally using Radiance LGS to get SA damage quickly, especially solo (don't have raid SS, and don't have all the gear to use Silent Avenger and Mists set yet, so still using Litany+TOEE set+Slavers Set).


I removed improved deception from my gear. Mainly because I dont need it for low reaper or elite, if I am soloing. In a group I usually have bunch of OP shintaos with me. Most trash is stunned, jaded, or intim'd.

If I really need the improved deception, I can swap out perfect pinnacle for it. it's also what i use to swap for elemental absorption rings when in baba and strahd.

I still havent purchased all the raid gear either, despite having 4k baba runes. being cheap and hoping I pull or roll them. I did purchase the goggles for the mrr. my gear in the interim is; 

silent set
cc trinket dodge/ resistance
cc bracers spell saves/ hamp/ I con
slavers neck ( con item )
ex helm
pinnacle
ring of prowess
crumbling gloves
ritchen goggles
FoM boots

it's lazy, but more than good enough for everything atm.  boots could be better and i dont like having to lose con for spell absorb swaps since it is on trinket, but I'll deal with it. overall worse than the set i posted for silent+adherent set up, though I do get spell saves this way, handy for evasion tanking caster bosses on high skulls.
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:03pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #234 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:19pm
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Spite doubles morninglord on red names due to the DOT. Keep digging the hole of your own retardness.
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #235 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:06pm
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 2:08pm:
There are some reasons to use LGS however, I've noticed a lack of people causing Vulnerability on targets lately, so I'm swapping to Vacuum at intervals to keep that up for instance. Is it worth it? In a raid I think so since so many people benefit from the +20%. In a party? Harder to say.

ALso occasionally using Radiance LGS to get SA damage quickly, especially solo (don't have raid SS, and don't have all the gear to use Silent Avenger and Mists set yet, so still using Litany+TOEE set+Slavers Set).

Yes, vulnerability stacking doesn't seem to be a given anymore, even in raids.  I've noticed the need to swap to a Vaccum to get vulnerability maxed has become more frequent since the RL freebie weapons.

I like LGS Salt for soloing.  It significantly increases the safety factor by serving as a ghetto form of CC. 

Plus, while I don't know if there is a scientifically sound way to prove it, actual gameplay gives me the impression that slowing the mobs may reduce the number of shuriken hits that fail to register due to lag.  If that perception is accurate, while Salt may not add directly to DPS like Radiance does, it may do so by proxy.
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #236 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:50pm
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Sergod wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Spite doubles morninglord on red names due to the DOT. Keep digging the hole of your own retardness.


This was only a discussion if you DO NOT have Spite you fucking retard.

NO ONE is arguing not to use Spite. Can you even read if something isn't written in fucking 4chan?
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #237 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:16pm
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Digimonk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Yes, vulnerability stacking doesn't seem to be a given anymore, even in raids.  I've noticed the need to swap to a Vaccum to get vulnerability maxed has become more frequent since the RL freebie weapons.

I like LGS Salt for soloing.  It significantly increases the safety factor by serving as a ghetto form of CC. 

Plus, while I don't know if there is a scientifically sound way to prove it, actual gameplay gives me the impression that slowing the mobs may reduce the number of shuriken hits that fail to register due to lag.  If that perception is accurate, while Salt may not add directly to DPS like Radiance does, it may do so by proxy.


Good to know it's not just me on vulnerability.

Don't have salt but do occasionally switch to Shimmering Arrowhead (plus Tendon Slice on Slavers) for extra CC when party CC is light on sketchier reaper runs. Would be awesome to try salt too, I imagine mobs would just move like they're in sleet storm.

I do think you may be right about lag induced shuri whiffs, though I think it's much better than it has been at times in the past when they really nerfed it and everything was missing when moving.
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #238 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 7:03pm
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harharharhar wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:16pm:
Good to know it's not just me on vulnerability.

Don't have salt but do occasionally switch to Shimmering Arrowhead (plus Tendon Slice on Slavers) for extra CC when party CC is light on sketchier reaper runs. Would be awesome to try salt too, I imagine mobs would just move like they're in sleet storm.

I do think you may be right about lag induced shuri whiffs, though I think it's much better than it has been at times in the past when they really nerfed it and everything was missing when moving.

If tendon slice, stay frosty, etc. suit your play style, LGS Salt is what you really, really want.
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #239 - Feb 26th, 2018 at 2:39pm
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Since we're talking about swaps:

I agree, vulnerability is not a given anymore. It is worth it to swap in vaccuum (or TF) for a few throws every once in a while to keep in stacked. Preferably while 10k is on cooldown.

Reinvigoration is so good of a swap on this build that I usually have it on by default, (for the +1 max charge to each boost) and then swap out to the others as needed. I don't think I stressed before how good it is to have your best boosts recharging while trying to maintain 100% boost uptime for combat brute/deadly rain.

Rebellion is still really good for double Improved Deception though (or to keep it on while you swap out your other Improved Deception item, or until they fix Echo.) Like others have said, if you're in a group and somehow not pulling aggro, then this one isn't so important, but I know that I'm running 8 minute solo FoT completions trying to get a mythic one.

Lastly, I'm thinking to drop KtA to 2/3 ranks and then to put the KtA Int stick into a set with an affirmation shuri (devotion/hamp/hamp) so while 10k is on cooldown you can swap, cocoon, refresh KtA, and then toss a few shots until affirmation procs. Then you have 10k, KtA, Affirmation all coordinated on a 60 second interval and take advantage of the extra HAmp. It's nice to hit the 60 second Unmovable boost at this point as well if you're just killing trash or whatever instead of red name DPSing.
« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2018 at 3:21pm by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #240 - Feb 26th, 2018 at 3:14pm
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That's a nice rotation. Only thing I'm missing is affirmation.
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #241 - Mar 3rd, 2018 at 11:56am
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Updated build post with math:

Code
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175.5 average base sneak attack (15d6 + 82 hide mod + 14 SoS boost + 27 from deception) * 6.22 (1.5 * 348 RP=522 effective RP)= 1091.61 * 4 (200% ANT/SE + 100% DS) = 4366.44 * 1.05 relentless fury = 4584.762 of just sneak attack damage per animation. (no helpless) * 2.75 (helpless mod) = 12608.0955


10.3[d2+3] + 21 enhancement + 47 dex + 15 KtA +19 deadly + 5 Advancing Blows + 4 ninjutsu + 3 monk PLs = 155.35 * 1.75 (crit profile) = 271.8625+27.5 (25 seeker) = 299.3625 * 4.48 (RP) = 1341.144 * 4 (ANT/SE/DS) = 5364.576 * 1.05 relentless fury = 5632.8048 red name * 2.75 (helpless) = 15490.2132

plus

9 Hemorrhaging + 10.5 CW Ruby + 30 sting + 4.5 quiver + 15 FC + 1100 glass shards = 1164.5 * 4 (ANT/SE/DS) = 4658 * 1.2 vulnerable = 5589.6

= 15807.1668 average red name damage per animation while auto attacking
x1.4 animations per second = 22130.03352 red name auto attack damage per second

=33687.9087 average trash mob damage per animation while auto attacking
x1.4 animations per second = 47163.07218 trash mob auto attack damage per second
 

« Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2018 at 11:58am by 5 Foot Step »  

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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #242 - Mar 4th, 2018 at 10:16am
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So this expansion is ridiculous power creep. This build's red name DPS more than tripled. Trash DPS almost septupled.

47k dps!  Shocked
  

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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #243 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:20am
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Weapon Versatility will only work with daggers/T. daggers after an upcoming patch(possibly this week). So, back to RP after that. They may also fix prowess to be 75 (as stated) vs 100 MP, not that it would matter anymore for shuri builds.
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #244 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:38am
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5 Foot Step wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 11:56am:
Updated build post with math:

Code
Select All
175.5 average base sneak attack (15d6 + 82 hide mod + 14 SoS boost + 27 from deception) * 6.22 (1.5 * 348 RP=522 effective RP)= 1091.61 * 4 (200% ANT/SE + 100% DS) = 4366.44 * 1.05 relentless fury = 4584.762 of just sneak attack damage per animation. (no helpless) * 2.75 (helpless mod) = 12608.0955


10.3[d2+3] + 21 enhancement + 47 dex + 15 KtA +19 deadly + 5 Advancing Blows + 4 ninjutsu + 3 monk PLs = 155.35 * 1.75 (crit profile) = 271.8625+27.5 (25 seeker) = 299.3625 * 4.48 (RP) = 1341.144 * 4 (ANT/SE/DS) = 5364.576 * 1.05 relentless fury = 5632.8048 red name * 2.75 (helpless) = 15490.2132

plus

9 Hemorrhaging + 10.5 CW Ruby + 30 sting + 4.5 quiver + 15 FC + 1100 glass shards = 1164.5 * 4 (ANT/SE/DS) = 4658 * 1.2 vulnerable = 5589.6

= 15807.1668 average red name damage per animation while auto attacking
x1.4 animations per second = 22130.03352 red name auto attack damage per second

=33687.9087 average trash mob damage per animation while auto attacking
x1.4 animations per second = 47163.07218 trash mob auto attack damage per second
 



It's funny how the majority of this damage boost comes from Spite with it's base damage and Shards. Filigrees are probably next in terms of contribution to power creep. I'd put new equipment sets down third on the list.

Overall tho yes, the big boosts for sure. (All of these comments are assuming MP to shurikens is going away).
« Last Edit: Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:38am by harharharhar »  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #245 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 1:24pm
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DragonCrotch wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Weapon Versatility will only work with daggers/T. daggers after an upcoming patch(possibly this week). So, back to RP after that. They may also fix prowess to be 75 (as stated) vs 100 MP, not that it would matter anymore for shuri builds.


Where this info came from?
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #246 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:43pm
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A little birdie told me so.
  
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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #247 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 4:42pm
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DragonCrotch wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:43pm:
A little birdie told me so.


nailed it
  
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GrizzlyBear
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duh?!

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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #248 - Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:27am
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DragonCrotch wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:43pm:
A little birdie told me so.

Thanks Cordo!
  
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DragonCrotch
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I Love Drama!

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Re: Purey Shuri
Reply #249 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 12:09am
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GrizzlyBear wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 8:27am:
Thanks Cordo!


Nope
  
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