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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) ranged and warlock nerfs (Read 22346 times)
harharharhar
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #75 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:41am
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 12:06am:
took shav 8 adrenalines to get 14 seconds. 1 adren/2 seconds while 10k. after those 1st 30 seconds it's one adren every 5 seconds and waiting on 10k for the next 30 seconds(poor compared to melee). tremendous dip in dps vs a melee never having its dps drop. post-burst the 5s/adren rate would take 40 seconds to down that boss and only if 10k is active, which it wouldn't be for the last 10 seconds of those 40. eventually adren will deplete too.


many builds would love to have a 40 second kobold time lol. Also, all of these melee comments bother me because they all forget that melees have to stop and heal/rebuff/re-clicky to not die, and throwers just don't really have to do that very often. Kobolds don't hit back.

I don't want to argue with people who love melee builds because it's worthless, you like playing melees then for pete's sake play them and love them. But don't try to argue an unprovable point on shaky grounds that it's better than a thrower. It's not. The DPS is higher for melees in a number of artificial, non player skill involved test scenarios for sure, and it should be since you are in their faces. But that doesn't mean over the course of a quest a melee build will be more effective or contribute more than a thrower. That's silly to argue. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure if you're arguing that, but it seems like you might be.

In any case, the trade off of not dying all the time being a thrower for lower long term sustained DPS is a good one, in my opinion. Obviously if melee's didn't have more total potential DPS, there would be no reason to play them except sadism.
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #76 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 12:43pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:24am:
Also, melees are still mostly garbage in high skulls. You have to have the best best build, best gear, and be exceptionally good at playing. That's like 1% of people who play this game (so like, 2 people).

overwhelming majority of trash in high skulls is conveniently held or tanked. bosses tanked if they can be. if not retarded can easily stay alive and contribute massive dps. there is a pure monk that i have done numerous lv30+ r10s with. he isn't 1% of people who play this game. just happens to be smart enough to dps held/tanked/kited mob/boss.
« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2017 at 2:46pm by Rubbinns »  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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harharharhar
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #77 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 4:49pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 12:43pm:
overwhelming majority of trash in high skulls is conveniently held or tanked. bosses tanked if they can be. if not retarded can easily stay alive and contribute massive dps. there is a pure monk that i have done numerous lv30+ r10s with. he isn't 1% of people who play this game. just happens to be smart enough to dps held/tanked/kited mob/boss.



Right well now you're talking about party dynamics and not the build alone on it's own bursting DPS at a static target.

I have no argument with any of that.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #78 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 5:54pm
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Yea im not smart enough to melee.. too hard..
  
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Rubbinns
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #79 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 4:49pm:
Right well now you're talking about party dynamics and not the build alone on it's own bursting DPS at a static target.

i'm talking about melee dps vs shuri dps on anything that has over 1m hp
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #80 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:44pm
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5 Foot Step wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 10:49am:
How about 60% attack speed, 8.8[2d8]W, over 100% Doubleshot, over 200 ranged power, and 15-20x4+19-20x6 on a build with 27d6 sneak attack dice?

Honestly I laughed when you said you needed helplessness to crit for 6k.

So you have some magical unicorn build that can consistently sustain those stats and DPS throughout the course of a 30 minute mission?  Jolly good.  By all means, post some videos of that build running a full mission. 

You've seen the video samples of melee builds like I'm talking about and Rubbins has confirmed what I was saying based on his and others' kobold dojo testing. 

All you've got is a bunch of snark and sobsob agreeing with you.  That's not exactly a stellar case.  That last noteworthy builds jakee did were in 2014 or 2015.  All he's done since then is tweak those same builds with things other people figured out first and claim they copied him.

I never said I was running the best melee build.  Technically I'm on a semi-gimped melee build designed for TRing that's doing that sort of damage in spite of being sub-optimal.  It still hits faster and crits more frequently than a gxbow.


  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #81 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:09pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:24am:
There is so much exposition of poor playstyle in this I don't even know where to begin.

Also, melees are still mostly garbage in high skulls. You have to have the best best build, best gear, and be exceptionally good at playing. That's like 1% of people who play this game (so like, 2 people).

You and 5FS keep making comments that show you don't run much (any?) high-skull, end-game reaper nor know what melee are really capable of.

You're still living in Epic Easy land where any half decent build can faceroll the keyboard and win.  You sound like the "melee can't do reaper" whiners on the mobos.  No wonder you're clueless about what melee can actually do.   

harharharhar wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:25am:
high skulls are level drains and vorpals which highly favor throwers. Against bosses, you dump DPS.

Sure, if you're slow and running with scrub DPS, that's what high skulls are.
« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:19pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #82 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:53am
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Ya im done with nurfing stuff.. why not just make other builds better?
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #83 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:43pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:48pm:
way more over time in favor of melee. shuris can do 40-50k maxxed for the first 30seconds, then they drop to around 10k~ until epic moment cools down. melees now do around 20k-30k sustained for the full 5 minutes.

kensei https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwJasJea_Bw

pure monk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1VSgLFx55o

knife fighter rogue https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7mj4CfXNKYhKn2Lkh140bA


I haven't played in 9 Months . . . what caused DPS to go that much higher?
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #84 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:48pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:43pm:
I haven't played in 9 Months . . . what caused DPS to go that much higher?

Combination of the usual power creep, minor fixes, and people just figuring out the best min/max combinations.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #85 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:57pm
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Digimonk wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:48pm:
Combination of the usual power creep, minor fixes, and people just figuring out the best min/max combinations.


Point me to the best current TWFing builds/setups please?   I'd prefer ranger as the class if it's not pure shit.   

I haven't played in ages but I have most of this month off an might fail my save versus boredom.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #86 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:22pm
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Digimonk wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
No enemies in the game, including Ravenloft enemies, have any Deflection (yet).

This.

If they don't, they will.

And it will likely be a stealth buff so they don't have to deal with the player backlash.

Because there is literally no reason for a player to have "Eldritch Blast" deflection, unless it's one of the precious few people on 7 servers who still does PvP.
  

I Got Nothin'.
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #87 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:33pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
i'm talking about melee dps vs shuri dps on anything that has over 1m hp


*solo vs. single target
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:33pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #88 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:53pm
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They are apparently thinking of adding an anti ranged reaper with deflection.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #89 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:59pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
*solo vs. single target

what does this even mean?
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #90 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:04pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:57pm:
Point me to the best current TWFing builds/setups please?   I'd prefer ranger as the class if it's not pure shit.   

I haven't played in ages but I have most of this month off an might fail my save versus boredom.

better off with pure monk because jade tomb, but pure ranger will be good too. new gear just throws doublestrike at you. 15 set bonus, 20-23 item, 10 insightful item. then new iconic race tree is dope as well.
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #91 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:50pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:04pm:
better off with pure monk because jade tomb, but pure ranger will be good too. new gear just throws doublestrike at you. 15 set bonus, 20-23 item, 10 insightful item. then new iconic race tree is dope as well.


I know pure monk is better, but I have SO many khopeshes and no monk gear.   Cheesy
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #92 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:28pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:59pm:
what does this even mean?


the DPS fall off you are characterizing throwers having matters in your scenario against a 1m HP mob if the melee and the thrower are being compared against that thing solo. Otherwise the share of DPS they have to do to kill it is reduced a great deal by party members, thereby lessening the importance of sustained DPS versus burst DPS.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #93 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:54pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
the DPS fall off you are characterizing throwers having matters in your scenario against a 1m HP mob if the melee and the thrower are being compared against that thing solo. Otherwise the share of DPS they have to do to kill it is reduced a great deal by party members, thereby lessening the importance of sustained DPS versus burst DPS.

gotcha. it matters in r10 after dmg debuff gives mobs effectively x10hp. melee dps is very welcomed
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #94 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:56pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:50pm:
I know pure monk is better, but I have SO many khopeshes and no monk gear.   Cheesy

you'll just have to "settle" for dance of death
  

Mockduck wrote on Aug 30th, 2010 at 2:20pm:
I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #95 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:21pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
gotcha. it matters in r10 after dmg debuff gives mobs effectively x10hp. melee dps is very welcomed


totally on board with that, and could be argued a more sustained DPS thrower build, like 5Foot's Pure in LD or SD might actually be more effective. I canceled my sub like 5 months ago, so I have no real idea what today's game in r10 is really like, just what it was like briefly for a couple months after it came out.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #96 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:22pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
the DPS fall off you are characterizing throwers having matters in your scenario against a 1m HP mob if the melee and the thrower are being compared against that thing solo. Otherwise the share of DPS they have to do to kill it is reduced a great deal by party members, thereby lessening the importance of sustained DPS versus burst DPS.

The 1m HP mob solo is really an example.  It serves reasonably well to represent the performance of a given build over the course of an entire mission.

In a vacuum aka very limited test scenarior aka dojo kobold where the target can be killed in 30s or less, you get to test the max potential of a build's short-term burst DPS capability.  That capability is often very different from a build's capability to sustain a given level of DPS over the course of a 30+ minute mission.  That's why relying solely on dojo kobold tests to form your DDO build worldview is a bad idea.  Kobold results do not accurately reflect the potential of a build across a 30-45 minute mission.

This is what reaper changed.  Pre-reaper, most missions in the game could be zerged in 15 minutes or less with a skilled group.  Short completion times heavily favor burst DPS over slightly lower, but more consistent sustained DPS.

With mid to high skull reaper missions, completion times on good runs often exceed 30 minutes.  The longer the mission takes, the more it favors high, sustained DPS over short-duration burst spikes.  This is where good DPS melee builds excel.

In 7-10 skull lvl 30+ missions, most trash has ~10-15k hps.  Neg level and vorpal fishing is an okay tactic, but it's no better than sustained raw DPS done properly and it's worse when it comes to bosses.  The best option is to have a somewhat balanced party where you have a caster that's CC primary, instakill secondary spec'd, 2 melee DPS, 1 ranged DPS, and a tank and healer.  That's what provide the smoothest, fastest mission clears in 7-10 skull reaper in my experience across about 35 reaper points worth of end-game missions.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:23pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #97 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 10:36pm
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You dont need dps on most shit.. just instakill trash.. charm champs and reapers....itll save you loads of time
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #98 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 4:12am
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 8:05am:
appears there is a ranged and warlock nerf incoming. new stat called missiles deflection. now ranged toons have to bypass dr/prr/ac/dodge/deflect arrows/missile deflection... get rekt bitches

also works for eldritch blasts lul

you're retarded if you think this won't be a big deal, let me save some time if you were going to post something like that. 75% cap for deflection

another thing; my dps times have got worse on lam. avg 33 seconds now when i was doing 24 previously with worse gear... if you have a thrower test it. some stealth nerfs?



Wow, now it is either I can see the future ( http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1511423423 ) or the management's modus operandi has become too obvious in the last decade.
  

Vaultaccount wrote on Aug 29th, 2016 at 7:06pm:
The most broken epic PL in the game is the ridiculous AC buff from martial PLs. But when you include all the inherent benefits from reincarnation, the thing is above the roof. The benefit from TR was supposed to be minimal, but now it is game breaking. start a new character and you will feel, you will get raped in heroics.

Personally I think lower heroics on new characters are harder than Legendary Elite content on a character with good gear and has all destinies farmed.


Arkat wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:14pm:
And someone in another thread called ME delusional recently!

Wow.

Have you EVER gone to Law School Feyn? Have you EVER been asked by a United States Senator who is now the Vice President of the United States to write a paper just for him on a particular topic of Constitutional Law for his use as a Senator? Have you ever been asked to help a very notable Harvard PhD turned Constitutional scholar with his very-well received book on Legal Philosophy and Constitutional Revolutions? Have you ever been offered a job as a Deputy Attorney General BEFORE you even graduated Law School?

No? Then STFU you fucking amateur.


Meat-Head wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 12:03am:
Thx. I was semi-waiting because windows 10 will be here soon. but, the crashing is making me want to punch old people.


IMARANGER wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:40pm:
Pretty sure that the fact that a service can be hacked doesn't make it the "community chest".
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #99 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 6:14am
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Skrilla wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 10:36pm:
You dont need dps on most shit.. just instakill trash.. charm champs and reapers....itll save you loads of time

Correct me if I am wrong but you are one of those r1 heroic whateverpletionist types, right ?
We all have fun our way but the above statement is just wrong. Superb ( and I mean really top notch party member or two ) damage is mandatory.
  
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