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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) ranged and warlock nerfs (Read 20807 times)
Digimonk
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #25 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 6:02pm
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Wipe wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 1:15pm:
Don't disagree much but warlock is perfectly fine DC caster.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.   The DC caster category includes instakill warlock builds.   My use of the warlock term in that list was referring to evo/pewpew builds.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #26 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 6:26pm
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Digimonk wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 5:00pm:
Or maybe you were the one running with newbs.   See how that works? 

Let's assume that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to shuricannons and stop playing that stupid game.  My previous posts on the topic should be enough evidence to support the assumption.  Additionally, shuricannons are my favorite build type and play style to run so if anything, I'm biased towards them, not against them.

IPS is the biggest factor that makes shuricannons appear stronger than melee.  A good shuricannon will often kill a couple mobs in a horde before melee even get in melee range but there's a big difference between "out killing" and "doing more raw DPS".  In particular, if you think xbow builds were more raw DPS than top-tier melee, you're way off base.

I assure you there are melee builds that bring just as much, if not more, DPS to the table than shuricannons do outside of that 30s of glory every 5 minutes known as Unbridled Fury.  I've run with a couple of players who just roflstomp things on a melee build.  I do think there are far fewer highly skilled melee players than there are shuricannons these days.  I think that tends to skew the perception of power in favor of the shuricannons. 

Good players are rare in DDO.  Good shuricannons, moreso.  Top-tier melee DPS players are near unicorn level rarity, but they do exist and you'll know when you actually see one.

I suspect part of the issue is that until we had reaper, trash mobs had low enough hit points that there was little practical difference in hitting/critting for 2k (shuri) vs 6k+ (melee).  Either one generally equals a dead mob in EE.  In reaper, that doesn't necessarily hold true and thus, the difference in raw DPS becomes easier to see.




this is cute.

And up until quitting, I was in arguably the best/most talented guild on Khyber after Revenants (Elite Raiders)

My guildies were absolutely not newbs, they were among the best players on Khyber. And the channel people I ran with were the other best players on Khyber.

Again, if something happened to melees I haven't tracked in the last 6 months, then so be it. But when I quit, melees were not out killing throwers, with the occasional exception of Jenn who is arguably the best melee player I've ever seen in game.

I have no doubt with recent nerfs and buffs melee's, when they aren't dead, can out single target DPS a thrower outside of unbridled. But it isn't by very much, and they will often be dead or have to back out of DPS to not die and heal/rebuff.
« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2017 at 6:31pm by harharharhar »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #27 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 6:35pm
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*honrable mention goes to Cammile but he's been out of game for over a year now
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #28 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 7:18pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 6:26pm:
this is cute.

And up until quitting, I was in arguably the best/most talented guild on Khyber after Revenants (Elite Raiders)

My guildies were absolutely not newbs, they were among the best players on Khyber. And the channel people I ran with were the other best players on Khyber.

Again, if something happened to melees I haven't tracked in the last 6 months, then so be it. But when I quit, melees were not out killing throwers, with the occasional exception of Jenn who is arguably the best melee player I've ever seen in game.

I have no doubt with recent nerfs and buffs melee's, when they aren't dead, can out single target DPS a thrower outside of unbridled. But it isn't by very much, and they will often be dead or have to back out of DPS to not die and heal/rebuff.

If your melee players couldn't outkill xbow builds, they were scrubs dude.  You should stop before you embarass yourself further.
« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2017 at 7:18pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #29 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 7:26pm
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And if Skelly Archers up on ledges that need killing to advance get 75% missile deflection and you're soloing on a melee?
  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #30 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 7:44pm
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Digimonk wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 7:18pm:
If your melee players couldn't outkill xbow builds, they were scrubs dude.  You should stop before you embarass yourself further.


this is how I know you're an idiot
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #31 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm
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harharharhar wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 7:44pm:
this is how I know you're an idiot

Sure dude.   Whatever you say. 

You apparently don't even realize you confirmed what I said while contradicting yourself with your "except for jenn".  You admitted that melee can keep up and outdamage shuris in the same paragraph you denied it.

Keep telling yourself whatever you need to though.  I don't really care.  You haven't been relevant since about 2015.  You're just making yourself look bad.  Well, worse than you already did with all your "but you stole mah buildz!" crybaby shit.

« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #32 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:16pm
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Wipe wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:34am:
Isn't armour class supposed to do the same thing ?


Because the developers are gay, retarded, and French.   every non D&D system these morons have added to the game is cancer.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #33 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 11:00pm
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Does anyone relevant still play a blaster warlock?  Pretty sure everyone switched to the DC build and only fall back on afk-blasting for the one or two fights in the game you can't gimp with charms.
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #34 - Dec 1st, 2017 at 11:47pm
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Quote:
Deflection can be used on gear to give a thematic protection against missiles without needing the heavily scripted current Missile Deflection feats. It scales better than adding another Missile Deflection with its own cooldown, and doesn't have the problem where its usefulness drops off against lots of enemies. The existing feats and enhancements haven't changed from their current implementation.

No enemies in the game, including Ravenloft enemies, have any Deflection.

Yes, we could use this in a raid or dungeon encounter to make melee DPS more valuable, but this isn't a stat we plan to add to regular enemies.

Sev~


Stop with the conspiracy theories! Sev thus spoke vault-ta-thustras
« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2017 at 11:47pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #35 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:15am
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WonderfulFoppyBint wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 11:47pm:
Quote:
Quote:
Deflection can be used on gear to give a thematic protection against missiles without needing the heavily scripted current Missile Deflection feats. It scales better than adding another Missile Deflection with its own cooldown, and doesn't have the problem where its usefulness drops off against lots of enemies. The existing feats and enhancements haven't changed from their current implementation.

No enemies in the game, including Ravenloft enemies, have any Deflection.

Yes, we could use this in a raid or dungeon encounter to make melee DPS more valuable, but this isn't a stat we plan to add to regular enemies.

Sev~


Stop with the conspiracy theories! Sev thus spoke vault-ta-thustras


Severlin is the fella who has stated that he understands that you target the soulstone when casting Raise Dead, right?

Rockstar.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #36 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 1:57am
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Digimonk wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 9:37pm:
Sure dude.   Whatever you say. 

You apparently don't even realize you confirmed what I said while contradicting yourself with your "except for jenn".  You admitted that melee can keep up and outdamage shuris in the same paragraph you denied it.

Keep telling yourself whatever you need to though.  I don't really care.  You haven't been relevant since about 2015.  You're just making yourself look bad.  Well, worse than you already did with all your "but you stole mah buildz!" crybaby shit.


Not taking a side here, but since I do know and run with the people he's talking about I'll throw out some first hand info.

Jenn is a freak.  He builds incredible melee builds, and works hard to make sure he out kills just about any other party member in a raid.  He's in the same category as Healina or Frets or Haunt.  Pointing out that Jenn can out kill a ranged build does not prove that a close quarters fighter is superior.   Healina can out kill most people too, and he's on a cleric.  Does that make clerics the best possible insta-killers in the game?
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #37 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 3:59am
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Deflection can be used on gear to give a thematic protection against missiles without needing the heavily scripted current Missile Deflection feats. It scales better than adding another Missile Deflection with its own cooldown, and doesn't have the problem where its usefulness drops off against lots of enemies. The existing feats and enhancements haven't changed from their current implementation.

No enemies in the game, including Ravenloft enemies, have any Deflection.

Yes, we could use this in a raid or dungeon encounter to make melee DPS more valuable, but this isn't a stat we plan to add to regular enemies.

Sev~
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #38 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 9:39am
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I find it curious that those are the only 2 posts he has made during the entirety of the RL preview period. Makes me believe it was his idea and he had intended to implement it as it was taken on the forums, but the swift backlash forced a BS excuse and a retraction.

I find it doubtful that they would implement another system then do virtually nothing with it (well, other than abandoning it in a month's time). Has to be much more to the story - or mobs will have it as described and they are just lying about it.   
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2017 at 9:40am by NoGoodDoc »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #39 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:08pm
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NoGoodDoc wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 9:39am:
I find it curious that those are the only 2 posts he has made during the entirety of the RL preview period. Makes me believe it was his idea and he had intended to implement it as it was taken on the forums, but the swift backlash forced a BS excuse and a retraction.

I find it doubtful that they would implement another system then do virtually nothing with it (well, other than abandoning it in a month's time). Has to be much more to the story - or mobs will have it as described and they are just lying about it.   

exact thought i had
  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #40 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:09pm
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OldCoaly wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:15am:
Stop with the conspiracy theories! Sev thus spoke vault-ta-thustras


Severlin is the fella who has stated that he understands that you target the soulstone when casting Raise Dead, right?

Rockstar. [/quote]

That would have been great yesterday when I dumped the soulstone of my secondary account near the top shrine in TS... Sadly, the character ghost was stuck at the door to the ledge of the devasting fall, so couldn't reach the schrine... Oh, I had to relog her to get raised. ( by that time the party moved on, and the stone was once more in a backpack... got raised at beholder )

They definitely need to play the game with accounts that don't have the 'IsTurbineStaff' set of features activated. ( forgot exactly the name of the feature, but who cares anyway )
  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #41 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:32pm
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GimpyPaw wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 1:57am:
Not taking a side here, but since I do know and run with the people he's talking about I'll throw out some first hand info.

Jenn is a freak.  He builds incredible melee builds, and works hard to make sure he out kills just about any other party member in a raid.  He's in the same category as Healina or Frets or Haunt.  Pointing out that Jenn can out kill a ranged build does not prove that a close quarters fighter is superior.   Healina can out kill most people too, and he's on a cleric.  Does that make clerics the best possible insta-killers in the game? 

Irrelevant.  Sobsob has proclaimed himself one of the top shuricannon players in all of DDO on multiple occasions.  So if you take the best melee DPS player and stack it up against the best shuricannon player and the melee player wins, guess what that means?  It's kind of sad I have to spell it out like that.

If melee DPS builds simply didn't have the potential to out damage ranged builds, it wouldn't be possible assuming player skill is roughly equal.  Clearly, it is possible based upon sobsob's own admission.

And from personal experience, I've run a pretty solid shuricannon.  At least solid enough so that I get repeated requests for my build.  I've run a couple of different melee lately that do noticeably more non-burst damage than shuricannons. 

Those melee builds have much better crit profiles than shuricannons and better base stats on weapons.  I get 2k+ normal crits and 6k+ helpless crits and get them pretty often.  They also have the benefit of having 10+ action boosts which essentially means you can use them every time they're off timer and still make it to the next shrine before running out in most quests.
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:43pm by Digimonk »  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #42 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:34pm
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ThatLukeGuy wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 3:59am:
Deflection can be used on gear to give a thematic protection against missiles without needing the heavily scripted current Missile Deflection feats. It scales better than adding another Missile Deflection with its own cooldown, and doesn't have the problem where its usefulness drops off against lots of enemies. The existing feats and enhancements haven't changed from their current implementation.

No enemies in the game, including Ravenloft enemies, have any Deflection (yet).

Yes, we could use this in a raid or dungeon encounter to make melee DPS more valuable, but this isn't a stat we plan to add to regular enemies.

Sev~

FTFH
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #43 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 2:57pm
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Yes, we could use this in a raid or dungeon encounter to make melee DPS more valuable, but this isn't a stat we plan to add to regular enemies.

Sev just said "we plan". Srsly? Who believes that shit?
  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #44 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 8:18pm
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Digimonk wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
FTFH


Yeah, you're not wrong
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #45 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 8:25pm
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Revaulting wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Sev just said "we plan". Srsly? Who believes that shit?



dat grand sevil social council
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2017 at 8:26pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #46 - Dec 2nd, 2017 at 9:54pm
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OldCoaly wrote on Dec 2nd, 2017 at 12:15am:
Severlin is the fella who has stated that he understands that you target the soulstone when casting Raise Dead, right?

Rockstar.

This. I trust Sev's implied promise that regular enemies won't have this as much as I trust Comcast to not screw me over once Net Neutrality is repealed. If enemies don't get it, it's because Sev couldn't figure out how, not because he was protecting players from his latest harmful corruption of a once great game.

Rockstar indeed.
  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #47 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 6:54am
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ROFL that recent 75% off warlocks sale was literally 75% OFF warlock with that new "warlock deflection caps at 75% stat" Cheesy

Intoducing another new stat that deflects mundane missiles and warlock blasts by %. I can see the logic pattern behind that. The next change introduced will be something like :
New stat "insane posture" -> reduces damage taken by % from those sources : halflings, iconic gnomes, fireball, greataxes and characters wearing robes (but not other cloth armors)
  
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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #48 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 8:54am
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warlock dps is so trash low lol what is 75% miss chance even do when u do 4 damage per hit anyway

i thought they said warlock was the benchmark for power and they were going to bring everything else to a comparable state
  

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Re: ranged and warlock nerfs
Reply #49 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:55pm
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Rubbinns wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 8:05am:
also works for eldritch blasts lul


Even if it's a cone and not a missile?

Digimonk wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 7:18pm:
If your melee players couldn't outkill xbow builds


Maybe you haven't run with any good crossbow builds?

Every time I've run FoTP on my mech, I've led kills just parked on the boulder next to the door, lazy as could be. No IPS, AF all the way.

  

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