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U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg (Read 49428 times)

Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #75 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 6:23pm	Print Post
	qweeve wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 4:33am: Shouldn't the tier 5 enhancement read "feature weakness" instead of "exploit weakness"? Lol. It's a shame if they change it though. At least, it'll be a shame if they change it before someone gets banned on the mother ship for talking about exploits. Edit: I should maybe read the whole thread before posting replies.
	« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2014 at 6:27pm by Revaulting »
	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #76 - May 1^st, 2014 at 12:31pm	Print Post
	Wow Single Weapon Fighting feats are fucking garbage. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441556-Swashbuckler-Update-amp-Single-... Single Weapon Fighting While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides. Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed melee weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d10 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (Example: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance Improved Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d12 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6 Greater Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d14 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11


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Shuy Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 613 Joined: Jun 29^th, 2013	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #77 - May 1^st, 2014 at 12:49pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 12:31pm: Wow Single Weapon Fighting feats are fucking garbage. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441556-Swashbuckler-Update-amp-Single-... Single Weapon Fighting While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides. Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed melee weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d10 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (Example: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance Improved Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d12 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6 Greater Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d14 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11 lol


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NotKel Korthos Resident Offline Posts: 40 Joined: Apr 7^th, 2014	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #78 - May 1^st, 2014 at 12:57pm	Print Post
	This whole pre has too much buckle and not enough swash.� They should scrap it and fix the two existing bard pre's.
	« Last Edit: May 1^st, 2014 at 12:57pm by NotKel »

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Vic Titan Demolisher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 355 Joined: Oct 19^th, 2013	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #79 - May 1^st, 2014 at 1:58pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 12:31pm: Wow Single Weapon Fighting feats are fucking garbage. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441556-Swashbuckler-Update-amp-Single-... Single Weapon Fighting While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides. Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed melee weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d10 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (Example: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance Improved Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d12 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6 Greater Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d14 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11 Holy fuck. That thing is not even bad. Its plain shitty. Srsly... I would not take it on a bard swashbuckler. Well, amybe the first tier. But I dont have feats for the entire line and its shitty enough that I am not even sad about not having them.


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jaggedmonk Waterworks Kobold Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 126 Joined: Mar 12^th, 2014	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #80 - May 1^st, 2014 at 2:21pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 12:31pm: Wow Single Weapon Fighting feats are fucking garbage. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441556-Swashbuckler-Update-amp-Single-... .... Oh well.� If thats their starting point, I doubt its gonna get much better in the end.� Didn't take them long to kill single idea.� At least Swashbuckler still has some things I'd pull onto various bard builds. If nothing else 3% dodge for all bards so long as it stacks with other dodge enhancements.


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GooFY Abbot Raider Offline Just one of those days... Posts: 771 Location: Washington State Joined: Dec 12^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #81 - May 1^st, 2014 at 3:34pm	Print Post
	NotKel wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 12:57pm: This whole pre has too much buckle and not enough swash. Strangely, as far as I can tell, bucklers are not allowed.�


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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #82 - May 1^st, 2014 at 3:48pm	Print Post
	mystafyi wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 10:01am: OK, WTF is this attack speed you speak of? As I understood it, it was based upon the animation sequence. most 1 handed weapons have the same speed, due to animations being the same. Most weapons have the same attack speed, but attack speed boost, weapons/abilities that offer doublestrike, some weapons that actually do have a higher attack speed, etc - all make a big difference. And tactical/melee abilities that have an animation that takes longer than your regular attacks make those tactical/melee abilities essentially worthless. For example, a special attack that gives +4W and +1 crit threat range that you can do every 3 seconds sounds good, right? But if that special attack animation takes 50% longer than a regular attack, then you'll end up doing less DPS with that attack than if you just never put it on your hotbar in the first place.


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GooFY Abbot Raider Offline Just one of those days... Posts: 771 Location: Washington State Joined: Dec 12^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #83 - May 1^st, 2014 at 3:48pm	Print Post
	For example we can't have swashbucklers swashbuckling using a Swashbuckler: http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Swashbuckler It would be too meta.


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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #84 - May 1^st, 2014 at 3:51pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 12:31pm: Wow Single Weapon Fighting feats are fucking garbage. I like them. Those feats will help to make sure that no one accidentally thinks that single weapon fighting is good. I was worried that they might make them less shitty and thereby trick people into taking the feat chain instead of TWF or THF. One way that they could be useful is if there is an exploit that allows you to get that benefit while also getting the benefit from TWF or THF. I'm hoping that doesn't happen, though.


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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #85 - May 1^st, 2014 at 3:53pm	Print Post
	What I don't get is why they went the "extra dice sides" route instead of a more powerful and, I would argue, more thematically correct doublestrike bonus.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #86 - May 1^st, 2014 at 4:00pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 12:31pm: Wow Single Weapon Fighting feats are fucking garbage. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441556-Swashbuckler-Update-amp-Single-... Single Weapon Fighting While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides. Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed melee weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d10 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (Example: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance Improved Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d12 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6 Greater Single Weapon Fighting Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides. For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d14 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.) Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11 Single weapon feats that only allow an Orb, runearm, or nothing? That's fucking lame. And all they do is give you some meager die increases? Not even a full 1[W]??? or .5[W]? This couldn't be worse. Honestly. You can't even use it with a shield of any sort. Who wants this? Fucking crap. From what I see, they don't even apply to the Swashbuckler who will be wielding a buckler. Ugh. Turbine crapping the bed again.


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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #87 - May 1^st, 2014 at 4:06pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 3:53pm: What I don't get is why they went the "extra dice sides" route instead of a more powerful and, I would argue, more thematically correct doublestrike bonus. Didn't see this when I posted, but I agree. Current options for increasing damage: 1) X[W] increases. 2) +X Damage modifier. 3) +to Doublestrike 4) Crit Range Increase 5) Crit Modifier Increase 6) X% Damage modifier And now they introduce something entirely new? WTF? Why did they need ANOTHER way to affect damage? It's similar to die stepping, but not exactly. In reality, it's basically an average of +1/+2/+3 damage for the three tiers. Why not just do to that and let everyone see exactly how crappy it is. I guess when combined with X[W] boosts from other sources it can be magnified, but it's never going to be as good as 2WF or 2HF. It's shit.


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NOTpopejubal Epic Poster Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 4096 Location: Let go or get dragged. Joined: Apr 17^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #88 - May 1^st, 2014 at 4:19pm	Print Post
	rest wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 3:53pm: What I don't get is why they went the "extra dice sides" route instead of a more powerful and, I would argue, more thematically correct doublestrike bonus. Doublestrike is a straight up equivalent to attack speed for one weapon, so that would have been a great option for single weapon fighting. It's exactly what the weapon style would have needed to be viable.


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rest One Man Wolfpack Offline Posts: 7223 Joined: Aug 13^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #89 - May 1^st, 2014 at 4:31pm	Print Post
	Someone post that shit. I got permabanned again.


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Yobai Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4126 Joined: Jul 26^th, 2012	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #90 - May 1^st, 2014 at 5:18pm	Print Post
	Quote: Oh, I can see where you made a mistake here. See, just because he took shit on your face after you finished "servicing" his asshole with your tongue this morning doesn't mean he is feeling down..... he probably left that dump on your mug as a tip. Isn't that a "Rusty Venture?"

	Revaulting wrote on Jul 7^th, 2015 at 8:16pm: Have you tried a lower difficulty, such as the official forums?
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Daze Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! I do ... I really do. Posts: 647 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #91 - May 1^st, 2014 at 5:44pm	Print Post
	This whole tree is complete crap. I would like to see Bards as more than just a flavor choice. That whole side of the alignment barrier needs to be comparable, option wise, to the other. Due to alignment restrictions this tree, or a mixture of classes and levels including this tree, is supposed to replace or enhance what exactly? Is it enough to compensate for not taking monk/pally levels? No Does it even contribute to a mixture of levels and enhancements that make it worthwhile to skip monk and pally?� Marginally What exactly does a pure Bard gain in this tree that they wouldn't get far more of from the other side of the lawful/chaotic divide? Less of everything ... only thing they get is to be a Bard and the subsequent irrelevance that entails. Thrower builds have to contend with Shuriken builds and there is just no comparison. So let's compare shuriken builds. For the price of 2 feats or a race and a feat you can keep up with a monk until you hit level 4 and they have access to a ninja spy core ability that doubles their likelyhood of throwing multiple shuriken ... and that only gets worse as you go up in levels considering at level 6 a monk would just get a 10k stars for better than 50% doubleshot pushb utton. Seeing as the rate of fire is where the DPS is at with shuri builds ... How exactly does the doubleshot and extra damage in this tree even come close? and that's if we stop at level 6 ... That isn't even considering the DPS loss of having your offhand choices even more limited ....
	« Last Edit: May 1^st, 2014 at 5:50pm by Daze »
	� �
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Munkenmo Epic Poster Offline Posts: 4339 Location: A land under down under Joined: Nov 10^th, 2010	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #92 - May 1^st, 2014 at 5:51pm	Print Post
	Now that the tree has cha for damage, if the single weapon feat can work with throwing weapons that does open up some interesting possibilities.

	So you want to know about an exploit? PM Epoch For Details. Or, in case you don't already know, OnePercenter controls the Exploits Board. Lastly, if you're truly desperate, Vendui Tells Everyone
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Shadehater Dropbear Awareness Society Offline Smite Stupid! Posts: 2174 Joined: May 6^th, 2012	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #93 - May 1^st, 2014 at 7:01pm	Print Post
	Are you fucking shitting me? Im supposed to give any number of shits about the equivalent of +1 damage for a feat? Also way to back track turbine...you stated a goal back during the enhancement pass to remove skill/feat requirements....but nope gotta take balance for +1 damage now. No thanks,.


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mattyboy Ex Member	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #94 - May 1^st, 2014 at 7:20pm	Print Post
	Yobai wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 5:18pm: Isn't that a "Rusty Venture?" I did not know that, fascinating...... there really is a name for everything isn't there?� Oh oh! someone (not me) could make a new non-swashcbuckler toon,� "Rusty Venture the former Swashbuckler!"� see? he is Rusty because he doesn't Swash his buckle?�


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mattyboy Ex Member	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #95 - May 1^st, 2014 at 7:25pm	Print Post
	Daze wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 5:44pm: This whole tree is complete crap. I would like to see Bards as more than just a flavor choice. That whole side of the alignment barrier needs to be comparable, option wise, to the other. Due to alignment restrictions this tree, or a mixture of classes and levels including this tree, is supposed to replace or enhance what exactly? Is it enough to compensate for not taking monk/pally levels? No Does it even contribute to a mixture of levels and enhancements that make it worthwhile to skip monk and pally?� Marginally What exactly does a pure Bard gain in this tree that they wouldn't get far more of from the other side of the lawful/chaotic divide? Less of everything ... only thing they get is to be a Bard and the subsequent irrelevance that entails. Thrower builds have to contend with Shuriken builds and there is just no comparison. So let's compare shuriken builds. For the price of 2 feats or a race and a feat you can keep up with a monk until you hit level 4 and they have access to a ninja spy core ability that doubles their likelyhood of throwing multiple shuriken ... and that only gets worse as you go up in levels considering at level 6 a monk would just get a 10k stars for better than 50% doubleshot pushb utton. Seeing as the rate of fire is where the DPS is at with shuri builds ... How exactly does the doubleshot and extra damage in this tree even come close? and that's if we stop at level 6 ... That isn't even considering the DPS loss of having your offhand choices even more limited .... After having played a shuriken toon, I parked or deleted every other thrower I had, just the sheer volume of fire makes it feel broken when you play any other thrower without the expertise, ninja II, 10k, dex, etc.... I would like it if they made the other throwers viable, but the Shuriken builds are just so OP that I just don't see it succeeding. More likely they will find a way to nerf the shuriken builds.
	« Last Edit: May 1^st, 2014 at 7:26pm by »

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NaturalHazard VoD Slasher Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1889 Joined: Jul 28^th, 2011	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #96 - May 1^st, 2014 at 7:28pm	Print Post
	Munkenmo wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 5:51pm: Now that the tree has cha for damage, if the single weapon feat can work with throwing weapons that does open up some interesting possibilities. some sort of throwing weapon and orb whatever in the off hand kind of build? ranged spells and weapons build? Dunno how it would go with the feats required or other stuff.


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Daze Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! I do ... I really do. Posts: 647 Joined: Mar 19^th, 2014	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #97 - May 1^st, 2014 at 7:42pm	Print Post
	Quote: After having played a shuriken toon, I parked or deleted every other thrower I had, just the sheer volume of fire makes it feel broken when you play any other thrower without the expertise, ninja II, 10k, dex, etc.... I would like it if they made the other throwers viable, but the Shuriken builds are just so OP that I just don't see it succeeding. More likely they will find a way to nerf the shuriken builds. Problem is that Shuriken builds are not overpowered for the game ... every other thrower concept just sucks that much.

	� �
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mattyboy Ex Member	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #98 - May 1^st, 2014 at 8:09pm	Print Post
	Daze wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 7:42pm: Problem is that Shuriken builds are not overpowered for the game ... every other thrower concept just sucks that much. Yeah, I will cop to that.
	« Last Edit: May 1^st, 2014 at 8:46pm by »

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The Great Neil Korthos Resident Offline Posts: 40 Joined: Nov 7^th, 2013	Re: U22 Swashbuckler Dev post by Varg Reply #99 - May 1^st, 2014 at 8:17pm	Print Post
	Asheras wrote on May 1^st, 2014 at 4:00pm: Single weapon feats that only allow an Orb, runearm, or nothing? 2.Skirmisher: Passive: While Swashbuckling with a Buckler in your off hand, you gain 7% Dodge, and you may use a Buckler and still benefit from the Single Weapon Fighting line of feats. Still doesn't make it less terrible.


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