I actually put far more of the blame on turbine. WBs SOP for a good while is to crank out a game and then pull all support. They don't really care one way PR another after and just kind of bet on it making back what it costs.
A good exams would be Gotham Imposters. Its actually a well made MOBA that had pay to unlock but nothing that couldn't be unlocked through play as well. However it literally had its entire dev team pulled as soon as it was released and stopped with any stability maintenance within its first six months. It ended up one of the great steam con's as any money you pay into will never benefit the game itself.

And that's where the real disconnect is. Many players wrongly assume subscriptions and micro transactions are at least partially reinvested back into the game they spend it on. Very rarely is that true.

From info I've read from former turbine employees that has always largely been DDOs main issue as well. Almost every dime ever spent by the players went to lotro or even worse was part of several mil in funds and dev time spent on things like a harry potter MMO mock up to court WB with as early as 2009.

Some developer studios like cryptic did this with titles like champions for so long eventually they got a bad rep for it and started the champions will get only what it earns after they had so much player bleed out and those left had already bought lifetime subs making it into a stagnant backwater MMO.

karavek wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 1:43pm:


This had been one of the points I've been trying to make for quite some time. The very last time I felt like DDO was moving in a progressive  and forward manner was back in late 2014 when I returned to the game after a 2 year hiatus. It was the last time I spent real cash on the game. It quickly had the veil lifted that the microtransactions at the beginning of 2015 were going to be the focus of DDO rather than improving the gaming experience. This was proven in Turbine's move to nerf tome drops and orange champ chest drops after the mimic event in Apr 2015. People were getting too many tomes or just too many chests and this was seen as concessions. Couldn't have that. Need more pointless opportunities crreated for revenue.

Ever since then, the clusterfuck was becoming more and more transparent especially leading up to legendary greensteel. Now it feels like they actually still expect people to drop real money on a game that according to the basic license agreement, can end tomorrow and if I understand correctly, anyone who paid for points or in game items will have gotten taken to the cleaners.

What has confounded me and has made me spend many days trying to vent my anger is the atrocious way the people who are now responsible for turning DDO into the pit of shit they made it are seemingly being rewarded for their acts of sabotage. Even Everquest has a legacy following, why would they be allowed to drain every last red cent from loyal players into a game that is being turned into a wretched marketing experiment now that they aren't reaching their bottom line revenue goals? It's not like they couldn't have. If they would have actually had pride in their work and put some artistic passion in making the game fun or even more complicated, just not making the game any worse, there would have been much better revenue over the years. But I don't even think it's about revenue anymore. It's gotten personal with some of the Turbine employees in the last 2 years, and maybe that's why it's gotten very personal for me.

This is not a defense of Turbine, What they have done to DDO is inexcusable and destruction of a decent MMO.

The future of DDO is probably more linked to contract negotiations between two titans in the world of shitty companies to work with, Warner Brothers and Middle Earth Enterprises.   In a way the two companies deserve one another, too bad however it may take DDO down with it.

The current license for LotRO expires mid 2017, the rights for additional films (The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Tom Bombadil and the Red Book) are currently in state of failed negotiations between MEE and WB/Wingnut/New Line.   

Word on the street is WB/Turbine is playing hardball and MEE is not willing to blink at the moment because they feel the movie rights are more lucrative.      And considering how played out the IP is for the hardcore players Turbine needs some concessions or additions from MEE to continue operating. 

So what happens at Turdbine if they lose the LotRO license.   I'm guessing it not good for DDO.

The only saving grace for DDO players is moving DDO into a maintenance mode or shutting down may be too expensive of a monetary penalty in terms of the contract between Hasbro/WotC and Turbine.

Asheras wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 1:51pm:
There are a lot of stories left in the LotR universe.  Just look at all of the books which haven't been made into movies yet.  Silmarilian, etc.    Tolkien was a prolific writer and churned out a richly detailed setting with characters and back stories which could easily make a dozen other movies.

But you have a point about the length.  I've hosted parties where I've queued up different movie series in different rooms.  The room where I queued up the LotR trilogy, directors cuts, was always the simplest.  Because it will last longer than most guests who aren't spending the night.


Asheras wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 1:51pm:

You'd think that.  But then there are things like the Spiderman reboot.  I watched the first reboot movie with an Uncle, and afterwards we discussed it.  My take was that is was a decent remake, it had a few improvements such as incorporating the technological web slingers as opposed to the first movies where it was just a part of his powers.  That was more true to the comics, but frankly (if I can cite myself) the comics pretty much got it wrong by making it a technological thing instead of an innate power anyway.

But the bottom line was:  Slightly different, but not enough to make it worthwhile as a different movie.

I know there were licensing issues or whatever that made the reboot a necessity, but still.  Too soon, and not necessary.  Some movies make a lot of sense as a remake, since technology marches on and they can far better represent the actual story using new technology.  The Spiderman reboot didn't have that as a reason to reboot, IMO.

karavek wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 4:12pm:

Yes, yes.  All stories derive from the same ur-stories.  We get it.  Nothing is new under the sun.

karavek wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 4:12pm:

If Gygax hated Hobbits, then why did he put Hobbits in his game, and then had to change then into Halflings because he was stealing Tolkien IP?  No, there is no denying that Tolkien was a huge influence on Gygax and his D&D game.

And don't go citing Gygax about what Gygax thinks too much, or with too much confidence.  He is (was) a very egotistical figure not unlike Trump who contradicted himself quite often.  If you judge him by his actions rather than his words, as all of us should be judged, you can quite easily see what he really valued and how he really acted.

Asheras wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 4:51pm:


Too forward thinking, won't happen.

Novalis wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 1:24pm:


This attitude has never made sense to me.

If WB doesn't want to run the game anymore, they would stop hosting it, turn off the servers, and move on. "Running it into the ground intentionally" Does literally nothing besides cost money.

If all they cared about was money, they'd make the micro-transactions even more "p2w"-ey than they are now(more point sales, make ottos boxes cheaper, just straight-up sell top-tier loot, etc)

Did they make a bad decision? Definitely. Was it made with the specific intention of "ruining the game" Obviously-fucking-not. They aren't trying to kill the game. If they wanted it dead, all they'd have to do is unplug the server.

Frank wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

noamineo wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 7:11pm:

This thread is filled with so much stupid, it gave me brain damage. Now I think these two posts of average intelligence are genius.

Frank wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 4:11pm:



I myself was not really seeing a point to the relaunch either until I saw the second one. Watch the scene of peter going g to see harry for the first time and play one of those long lost lovers reunited type song's then you will understand what crowd they where after. That ultra young gender confused angst tween PC crowd.

karavek wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 8:31pm:

Point taken.

karavek wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 8:31pm:

Point taken ... away.

karavek wrote on Jul 18^th, 2016 at 4:12pm:


Don't forget Poul Anderdon's Holger Carlsen.  And his regenerating trolls.