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Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos (Read 15057 times)

Halfmaniac Stormreaver Piker Offline I'll lead you to my basement Posts: 720 Joined: Nov 12^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #25 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:00am	Print Post
	eighnuss wrote on Sep 1^st, 2016 at 9:09am: How many times have you entered a heroic von 6 KNOWING that these fuckers will fail on the pillars? when is the last time u went into an abbot knowing with full certainty that your group would be successful- despite the fact that everyone in quest is 15 levels over the quest level? I agree with everything except this utter piece of bullshit. Sounds to me you've had some bad pugging experience. If you thought for a second that you could succesfully complete a raid with 100% certainty with random strangers, THAT is completely 100% on you. Yes it's un-fucking-fortunate that there are a lot of incompetent players that fail at simple objectives like destroying von pillars, but if you can't swallow defeat then you should probably lead your own raids and filter them or join filtered raids (who the fk still does this anyway?) You could also play on a lower difficulty, hm? Or if you still want 100% win certainty you should probably play gay ass Hello retarded Kitty online.
	« Last Edit: Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:01am by Halfmaniac »
	karavek wrote on May 6^th, 2017 at 8:10pm: Look dude just because you hate a cunt doesn't mean you stop fucking the bitch you just turn her over and hate fuck her ass bloody then your take her to Tijuana and sell her ass to some spic pimp.
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DoRayEgon Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1042 Joined: Apr 4^th, 2014	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #26 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:41am	Print Post
	Quote: Am I missing something here? We have: AC, which is useless on the game's highest difficulties DR, which is also useless because it's impossible to get a meaningful amount Displacement, which is negated by mobs who have True Seeing Incorporeality Dodge And I really am skeptical of dodge/incorp being good enough of a defense to really make a huge difference. As far as I know, the easiest, best, and most efficient way of mitigating damage is to simply kill mobs before they can touch you, or kite them... both of which require being ranged/caster. A+, most hilarious and on-point rant I've read in awhile From my experience AC is not useless, but does come with diminishing returns. Stacking dodge and sources of dodge can make a large difference. Uncanny dodge, meld into darkness and elaborate parry (tempest only, but works with any fighting style) can give you up to 60ish seconds of 25 - 100 dodge. Also the simple avoidance of MOVING AROUND is something I see alot of players still not do. I see so many standing like a statue swinging away. Mob swings can be avoiding by circling/strafing.


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Vaultaccount Stormreaver Piker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 624 Joined: Apr 29^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #27 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 11:05am	Print Post
	m4lacka wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 7:30am: Then again: you address "you guys" with a little "Oh, I know things!" tone, when in fact no one was talking about melee. First there was just people unable to read and now there are fucking retards like you who see things not written. I'm adressing this to the people who say over and over again how mlees are worthless and ranged is easy button. I'm tired of seeing that. If you want to see a tone on it be free to feel wathever you want. They are talking about the difference between mlee and ranged when they say ranged is easy, obviously. You need better interpretation capacity.
	« Last Edit: Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 11:06am by Vaultaccount »

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Frank Puppy Farmer Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1429 Joined: Jan 14^th, 2016	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #28 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 1:23pm	Print Post
	Artorias wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 6:34am: Uh huh. Very tactful standing in plain sight behind a step just outside their aggro range. The boss that aggroes the toon alone without calling for back up because "reasons" is also very funny. Golden is truly uber when it comes to raiding but don't tell me that is tactICAL use of terrain. That is clever use of mobs stupidity. 4 out of 10 for the try A tactical use of terrain is when you use coverage to protect yourself from monsters or ...pff....I dunno... standing right outside a door to force monsters in fighting in groups of 3 or 4 (pretty much all we ever use). You might want to actually read what you write before you post, so you don't end up arguing against your own words. Quote: A tactical use of terrain is when you use coverage to protect yourself from monsters Yes, I agree.� Exactly how many worm blasts did he have to dodge over the course of that fight?� Zero, because he used coverage to protect himself from a monster.� Your words exactly. Exactly how many trash mobs did he have to fight?� One, and that is probably because it is the only one that would have aggroed and come with the boss.� So he killed it first and then he used coverage to protect himself from having to fight the rest of the monsters.� Your words exactly again. He did exactly what you cite as a tactical use of terrain, and yet you somehow manage to disagree with yourself within the same post.� The mental gymnastics this must require on your part to achieve boggles the mind.
	« Last Edit: Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 1:23pm by Frank »
	No, let me be Frank. Digimonk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 12:39pm: I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive. Smart players know how to use buyback. Digimonk wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 1:58pm: I will not chone. I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect. Smart people don't elicit "side effects."� They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Artorias Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1177 Joined: Mar 21^st, 2015	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #29 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 1:56pm	Print Post
	Frank wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 1:23pm: You might want to actually read what you write before you post, so you don't end up arguing against your own words. Yes, I agree.� Exactly how many worm blasts did he have to dodge over the course of that fight?� Zero, because he used coverage to protect himself from a monster.� Your words exactly. Exactly how many trash mobs did he have to fight?� One, and that is probably because it is the only one that would have aggroed and come with the boss.� So he killed it first and then he used coverage to protect himself from having to fight the rest of the monsters.� Your words exactly again. He did exactly what you cite as a tactical use of terrain, and yet you somehow manage to disagree with yourself within the same post.� The mental gymnastics this must require on your part to achieve boggles the mind. Yes he sure did, you are totally right


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iGouger Ex Member	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #30 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 3:03pm	Print Post
	DoRayEgon wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:41am: From my experience AC is not useless, but does come with diminishing returns.� Stacking dodge and sources of dodge can make a large difference.� Uncanny dodge, meld into darkness and elaborate parry (tempest only, but works with any fighting style) can give you up to 60ish seconds of 25 - 100 dodge. Also the simple avoidance of MOVING AROUND is something I see alot of players still not do.� I see so many standing like a statue swinging away.� Mob swings can be avoiding by circling/strafing. Interesting. Perhaps I'm not building right; I've gotten in to 180-190 AC range and find that things still hit me in EE about 80% of the time, but maybe with enough epic reincarnations and farming of endgame gear (which I don't do, since I don't like staying at the cap) would make a difference when it comes to AC. I don't really give a shit about running EE/LE content much, so the one time I did try to build defensively, it was kind of half-assed anyway. My end conclusion was that AC is useless on EE, but that might be incorrect. Abilities such as uncanny dodge and meld into darkness are good, but my main gripe with them is that they have very long cooldowns... not to mention that it's yet another hotkey spot taken up, and my main hotbar usually already has action boosts +lots of other things anyway. Moving and strafing as a melee just doesn't work as effectively as it does for range, from my experience. Especially in quests like ToEE EE, where you're swarmed by 30+ monsters at once. There's just no way to evade them all at once, and I invariably find myself taking ludicrous amounts of damage. Additionally, there's always DDO lag... Iunno. All of these are valid points and can make playing melee manageable, but in the end, I can't help but think that ranged is still easier to play on EE, all things being equal.


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FranOhmsford Dragon Raider Offline Rule Britannia Posts: 249 Location: Cannock Chase Joined: Jul 26^th, 2012 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #31 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:22pm	Print Post
	Quote: Moving and strafing as a melee just doesn't work as effectively as it does for range, from my experience. Especially in quests like ToEE EE, where you're swarmed by 30+ monsters at once. There's just no way to evade them all at once, and I invariably find myself taking ludicrous amounts of damage. Additionally, there's always DDO lag... Iunno. All of these are valid points and can make playing melee manageable, but in the end, I can't help but think that ranged is still easier to play on EE, all things being equal. As you mentioned ToEE. I'd like to ask how exactly you're kiting on a ranged character in there without getting completely swamped? Considering the space between mob spawns is tiny and each spawn has a good 8-12 mobs in it! Now I don't run EE {Especially not in ToEE} but I've found It much easier in there on the difficulties I do run to be a Cleaving Melee {Or Auralock obviously} than as a Mech/Arti or Archer or Chainlock. I get what people say about the benefits of Ranged for Defense BUT I find there's a lot of quests in DDO where Ranged is actually at a disadvantage unless said Ranged Character has some way to either CC mobs OR AoE them {And no IPS does not count as an AoE}. ToEE is definitely one of those Quests as are newer quests like Grim & Barrett and Archons Trial. Where there's just no space to Kite!

	Main Characters by Server - Cannith Jelina, Sylveria, Enochpagett, Lieuk, Larystessian, Molineux. Sarlona Keltenn, Franq, Athiina, Nyszsa, Curleag, Nalpheyn. Khyber Tynecastle, Athenion, Argo Clievelund, Bjorkalina, G-Land Hassannavid, Tannadice.
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Rubbinns The Undeserving Fuckwit Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 10460 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #32 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:29pm	Print Post
	FranOhmsford wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:22pm: CC mobs crippling stay frosty leg shot pin otto tendon slice are we even playing the same game? FranOhmsford wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:22pm: AoE them {And no IPS does not count as an AoE}. actually is. youre just retarded. and gay FranOhmsford wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:22pm: Where there's just no space to Kite! this is why youre terrible at this game. also, you could, you know, maybe, just range them? crazy. i know.

	Mockduck wrote on Aug 30^th, 2010 at 2:20pm: I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5949 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #33 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:30pm	Print Post
	FranOhmsford wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:22pm: Where there's just no space to Kite! no no frannie

	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5949 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #34 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:31pm	Print Post
	Go suck a fucking dick rubbins. Beat me to it.

	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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5 Foot Step Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline I Hate Idiots! Posts: 11119 Location: USA Joined: Mar 8^th, 2014 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #35 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 5:25pm	Print Post
	[] wrote on Sep 1^st, 2016 at 9:58pm: favorable game bugs like wolf and thrower. Ranged weapons are a bug?

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Frank Puppy Farmer Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1429 Joined: Jan 14^th, 2016	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #36 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 7:55pm	Print Post
	Quote: My end conclusion was that AC is useless on EE, but that might be incorrect. It's not useless, but like many things in the game it's a matter of go big or go home. If you're not stacking it high enough you're wasting your time and effort.

	No, let me be Frank. Digimonk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 12:39pm: I've had multiple RoSS rot just from doing the explorer points in Sands across multiple lives since it is exclusive. Smart players know how to use buyback. Digimonk wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2016 at 1:58pm: I will not chone. I did what I did intentionally and while my primary purpose was not to annoy the other Vaulties, I acknowledge that it was a side effect. Smart people don't elicit "side effects."� They understand in advance the consequences of their actions.
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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #37 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 8:28pm	Print Post
	FranOhmsford wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 4:22pm: I'd like to ask how exactly you're kiting on a ranged character in there without getting completely swamped? Better than you are.

	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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Who Cares Not this guy ^^^ Offline You sir, are a dickbag. Posts: 1951 Joined: Dec 5^th, 2014	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #38 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:14pm	Print Post
	Revaulting wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 8:28pm: Better than you are. That's not really saying much is it though?

	Fuck Off, That is all Strakeln wrote on Feb 10^th, 2016 at 9:17pm: WC can do whatever he wants. [] wrote on Feb 6^th, 2017 at 11:26pm: Public Service Announcement: your servers are not dead; if you can't find groups, it means you suck and/or nobody likes you.
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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5949 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #39 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:39pm	Print Post
	Who Cares wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:14pm: That's not really saying much is it though? Man. You have no dick. Or even a vagina. Just some awkward looking trani-dick. Hey there you fucking trani-dick. Trani-dick. jap jap jap
	« Last Edit: Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:40pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »
	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5949 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #40 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:41pm	Print Post
	It's like you're Filipino.

	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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Revaulting Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Posts: 10143 Location: Not in my pants Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2014 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #41 - Sep 3^rd, 2016 at 7:59pm	Print Post
	Who Cares wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:14pm: That's not really saying much is it though? I decided to follow Sailias's approach and pick the low hanging fruit. It's better before it falls and rots. Like whatever the fuck happened to Foppy, here.

	Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5949 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #42 - Sep 3^rd, 2016 at 8:05pm	Print Post

	« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2016 at 8:05pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »
	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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WonderfulFoppyBint Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline Poooop Posts: 5949 Location: stockholm victim of hag master Joined: Oct 23^rd, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #43 - Sep 3^rd, 2016 at 8:06pm	Print Post


	OUR GOD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q Right of Self-determination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE volt_ wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2017 at 4:43pm: Be a container for your genes to control your behavior in order to reproduce
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eighnuss Epic Poster Offline ด้้้้้ ͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩ ͩͩͩͩͩͩ Posts: 3468 Location: ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็ ͩͩͩͩͩͩͩ Joined: Jan 30^th, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #44 - Sep 11^th, 2016 at 12:22pm	Print Post
	Halfmaniac wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 9:00am: I agree with everything except this utter piece of bullshit. Sounds to me you've had some bad pugging experience. If you thought for a second that you could succesfully complete a raid with 100% certainty with random strangers, THAT is completely 100% on you. Yes it's un-fucking-fortunate that there are a lot of incompetent players that fail at simple objectives like destroying von pillars, but if you can't swallow defeat then you should probably lead your own raids and filter them or join filtered raids (who the fk still does this anyway?) You could also play on a lower difficulty, hm? Or if you still want 100% win certainty you should probably play gay ass Hello retarded Kitty online. what is your argument here? you are pretty much validating the statement you quoted. stupid people are unable to coordinate the simultaneous killing of 3 things. proving my point that if u want to create difficulty and a non 100% win certainty you must create cooperation rather than inflated HP and damage. at the same time, this whole debate has had nothing to do with my own personal playstyle or desired win certainty and everything to do with facts- so im not sure where you are deriving your assumptions about me from or how you believe they tie into this discussion. i think its cute how you attempt to turn a perfectly valid example of the true method for increasing game difficulty in an effort to reduce guaranteed victory and perceived ease, into accusing me of seeking a game with 100% win certainty. go away you low tier contrarian shitposter reserve your limited arsenal of internet ammunition for kids on your level, like knn inflated math is not difficulty dynamic puzzles and cooperation are difficulty

	ͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩͩDISCLAIMER: This post is provided �as is� for informational purposes only. The Department of Vault Security (DVS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within. DVS does not endorse any commercial product or service referenced in this post or otherwise.
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harharharhar Epic Poster Offline Girthless Trolllicker Posts: 3421 Joined: Aug 31^st, 2012 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #45 - Sep 12^th, 2016 at 1:23am	Print Post
	eighnuss wrote on Sep 11^th, 2016 at 12:22pm: what is your argument here? you are pretty much validating the statement you quoted. stupid people are unable to coordinate the simultaneous killing of 3 things. proving my point that if u want to create difficulty and a non 100% win certainty you must create cooperation rather than inflated HP and damage. at the same time, this whole debate has had nothing to do with my own personal playstyle or desired win certainty and everything to do with facts- so im not sure where you are deriving your assumptions about me from or how you believe they tie into this discussion. i think its cute how you attempt to turn a perfectly valid example of the true method for increasing game difficulty in an effort to reduce guaranteed victory and perceived ease, into accusing me of seeking a game with 100% win certainty. go away you low tier contrarian shitposter reserve your limited arsenal of internet ammunition for kids on your level, like knn inflated math is not difficulty dynamic puzzles and cooperation are difficulty http://i.imgur.com/Dz4bP8b.gif tldr yawn


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Barkabout Shroud Slacker Offline I Love Drama! Posts: 1032 Joined: Aug 15^th, 2013	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #46 - Sep 12^th, 2016 at 7:45am	Print Post



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Illiterate Titan Demolisher Offline Yataaaa Posts: 359 Location: France Joined: Jul 31^st, 2010 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #47 - Sep 12^th, 2016 at 8:10am	Print Post
	Artorias wrote on Sep 1^st, 2016 at 9:57am: This game is almost completely in phase "go there and dps that shit" Like Defiler of the Just: go north west and kill the spawned mobs, go center and kill the spawned mobs, go south east and kill the spawned mobs ... go to boss and kill it in 5 seconds, bam you're done. That was a raid.

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Asheras Completionist (i.t.p.) Offline This is why we can't have nice things. Posts: 10230 Location: Ohio Joined: Jun 9^th, 2010 Gender:	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #48 - Sep 12^th, 2016 at 9:11am	Print Post
	Illiterate wrote on Sep 12^th, 2016 at 8:10am: Like Defiler of the Just: go north west and kill the spawned mobs, go center and kill the spawned mobs, go south east and kill the spawned mobs ... go to boss and kill it in 5 seconds, bam you're done. That was a raid. Most Raids are nothing but that. Have been for years and years. VoD - Stand around and Kill shit. LoB - Run to center. Kill Shit. DQ - Stand around and Kill shit. ToD - Run to mobs and Kill Shit. Repeat x 2. FoT - Stand around and Kill Shit. FoTP - Stand around and Kill Shit. CiTW - Run around and Kill Shit. DoJ - Run around and Kill Shit. TS - Run to top of mountain (killing shit along the way). Kill Shit. VoN - Run to pillars. Kill Shit. Run to Dragon. Kill Shit. MoD - Go North. Kill Shit. Go east and west. Kill Shit. Go to Center. Kill Shit. Chrono - Run to next boss fight. Kill Shit. Repeat x 2. Hound - Run around and kill shit. Wait for message. Kill boss. Of the 17 or 18 or so raids, how many have a puzzle or other obstacle besides kill shit? Titan, Abbott, Shroud, Reavers, and Deathwyrm. Sure there are minor stategy variations (DoJ timers on executioners, reinforcements or LoB phases/specials or FoT phases, or VoD phases, or Hound Xyxxy strategy) but it's still all Kill Shit. The only thing that made DoJ remarkable was that the end boss was such a wimp. It needed another 500k HP to make that fight interesting. But to act like the "go there and dps that shit" is a new problem is misguided.


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Artorias Shroud Slacker Offline Posts: 1177 Joined: Mar 21^st, 2015	Re: Slarden schools a poor sucker on the mobos Reply #49 - Sep 12^th, 2016 at 4:58pm	Print Post
	No it's not. Old raids required some sort of roles Fuck, even epic abbot (that I really despise) required (maybe still does?) people assigned to a specific role in order to complete. What has DoJ exactly? Oh yeah. North group and south group. Goal? Kill stuff as fast as possible. NOTHING FUCKING ELSE. If two people could stay in auto attack and simply move a bit to aggro the executioners they would still complete the raid. IMHO the worst raid ever in ddo followed only by legendary shroud (legendary shroud will be completely different from heroic version my ass)


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