The suggested update to swf might be ok...3 feats for 2x stat to damage and 15% stacking alacrity would help quite a bit.

Assuming I read that right.

Daze wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 4:54pm:


Yes, I was factoring in a 3 Bard splash. Should have mentioned that.

I actually like the Epic Swashbuckler in this scenario because of the doublestrike and constant dazing if the mainhand crit range is decent enough. I was initially thinking alchemical would be the best option, but now I'm thinking the namesake shield would work best.

NOTSunnyshadow wrote on May 5^th, 2014 at 8:01pm:


Well right. That's why you grab 3 Bard levels to allow the Swashbuckler stance and the Single Weapon Fighting feats to work with bucklers.

NOTSunnyshadow wrote on May 5^th, 2014 at 8:19pm:



Wow, that could actually have some cool potential.

NOTSunnyshadow wrote on May 5^th, 2014 at 8:19pm:

Making the capstone or even the lvl 18 feat be off-hand scroll use would have a huge legitimizing effect on the whole tree, I think.

I'm guessing it might involve a nightmare to code. By all evidence, the earlier weapon coding was somehow tied into all game functionality. Scrolls being used from the main hand is probably still operating by those early codes.

Adding a 'buckler dash, and tumbling through enemies makes amazing sense, in the finest Errol Flynn tradition. Changing fascination to "stab each other in confusion while trying to chase after you" would also be a great flavor change. But again, probably way past the ROI.

QuantumFX wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 2:12am:

Juggernaut? Not sure. Would a Juggy be improved by either SWF or a bard splash?

I think they were just worried about denying Arti splash to a class that already can't Monk or Pally.

5 Fighter, 3 Bard, 12 x. Balizarde becomes 13-20/x4. Forester's Brushhook does the same without the need for Kensei crit range increase.
Alternatively, they could mess up the SWF feats so that you don't lose their bonuses when wielding a scroll or wand, making them usable on a monk.

FM wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 9:38pm:


It isn't listed. I just assumed it would count because it's finessable. Assuming it does count, it should get +2 range and +1 multiplier. I don't know why I assumed something would work as described. I must be playing other games too much lately.

Revaulting wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 3:08am:


I was trying to be sarcastic about Bastard Swords and Dwarven axes.  (IIRC they’re 1d10 and 1d12 base damage.  So, they should benefit from both SWF and THF feats.)

The Updated SWF feats seem pretty good.

Rubbinns wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 11:10pm:


Late to the party on this thread as I thought it sounded kinda meh.  But I'm bored and reviewing meh threads now.

Have to agree on this.  The time and effort would have been better spent on fixing the other two PRE's first.

I can perhaps understand the theme, but before designing a new tree you must have a rationale for its place in the game.  Why would someone use this over something else.  Trade offs are fine, but it has to be competitive in some way. 
I think they have their design philosophy arse about. 
Someone has brainfart, detailed design, float to players.  Win or not.....
Ideas have to pass the smell test - how will it work?  What niche will it fill?  Who will it appeal to?  Who do we want to preclude to avoid game balance issues?  Etc etc.  Isn't that why Turdbine have the PC?

The fact that they publish something this terrible as a first pass clearly shows a lack of game knowledge, preparation and professionalism.

I don't expect them to know everything, but for christ's use the PC to vet these crappy ideas before you embarrass yourself Turbine.

Reading through this thread, you can see them scrambling to fix it.  The changes are so far from the initial passes, disappointingly it shows how out of touch they are with their product.
Who knows where it will end up.
I hope they fix it so as to justify the development time.  But they seem to have some fundamental issues between theme and functionality and game balance.

Lelouch wrote on May 14^th, 2014 at 6:49am:

No. It is about swashbuckler. Most of these comments were before swf line was out. Rapiers seem good with swashbuckler and swf. Bastard Sword beating out 2handers for damage with swf currently as is.