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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #25 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:44pm
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Tried unchecking that Detailed Shadow setting or whatever it is? Been so long since I had to do it, I forget what it was, but it's something in advanced graphics. One checkbox, fixed my intermittent pausing a treat. It was called out on main forums in its own thread at least twice before I left there. Sorry, can't remember precise setting, will look after food if no-one else has named it.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #26 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 3:44pm
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Flav wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:30pm:
The graphic card doesn't matter much

False.

The graphics card makes a significant difference for game performance at a given resolution, especially with regards to Draw Distance.

Flav wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:30pm:
Core2 are 3 generations after Pentium D, they have PCI-E 2.0 so the bandwidth on the bus is still relatively good enough....
Pentium D with PCI-E 1.1 Mainboards are definitely not good enough anymore.


Northbridge determined PCIe type and lane count.  Not the processor.

P4 was paired with the intel 8xx (which could support AGP slots) and 9xx chipsets. 
The Core2Duo was paired with the 9xx chipsets (2006 which offers PCIe 1.0), P3x/G3x/Q3x (late 2007, introduced PCIe 1.1)

Only one generation separates these two.  There was no change in the data rate or bandwidth between PCIe 1.0 and 1.1.

In the middle of 2008, the Intel B4x/G4x/Q4x chipsets introduced PCIe 2.0.  Core2Duo was also supported by these chipsets, but that's not what I tested with.

PCIe 2.0 doubled the theoretical transfer rate and bandwidth, however there were no graphics cards at that time that could exploit this increase.


Flav wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:30pm:
the load is on the CPU and the PCI-E bus.
( the PCI-E bus is the bottleneck on old systems )


PCIe bandwidth is relevant when the bus is transferring enough data to saturate it.

This is not happening in the OPs system, nor is it happening with low-end PCIe cards (notwithstanding the rare duck who has 3x 5770s in Crossfire/SLI), nor is it likely to occur in single user / single disk environments.


The machine I was using this weekend was manufactured in 2007, is "limited" to PCIe 1.1, and ran DDO nicely with that old 5770.
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2015 at 4:21pm by OldCoaly »  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #27 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 4:42pm
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archon wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 11:48am:
2. See if you can get away with killing the "awesomium" processes when ddo starts.  I used to, but I don't think you can anymore... the last time I tried it took down the game client also.

Have you tried recently? I go in and nuke that process after I log on, and don't have any issues with it crashing the game or anything like that.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #28 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 4:49pm
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danzig138 wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 4:42pm:
Have you tried recently? I go in and nuke that process after I log on, and don't have any issues with it crashing the game or anything like that.

Yeah, works fine here and frees up half a gig of ram.  Gotta do it every toon switch though.
  

Daggertooth wrote on Apr 14th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
I'm pretty fucking sure I am a special snowflake.


Frank wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 8:32am:
Laugh it up, funny man.
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #29 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 5:29pm
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If you will not use the DDO Store, Kill the seven awesomium processes that you get.  Yes, they are back.

When you download this new update, once it is downloaded you can uninstall netsessions at it is no longer needed.

How many other processes do you have running?  Skype?  Hulu?  Netflix?
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #30 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 5:31pm
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danzig138 wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 4:42pm:
Have you tried recently? I go in and nuke that process after I log on, and don't have any issues with it crashing the game or anything like that.


I bet that player was talking about TurbineClientLauncher.exe.  If you kill that process, the game goes down,  Killing Awesomium.dll works fine for me and ALWAYS has, even back when we first had the wonders of Awesomium pushed on us in 2012?  2013?  2014?
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #31 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 8:08pm
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Metal-Beast wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 12:39pm:
Now I gotta try ruining DDO from a thumb-drive.


You don't need to ruin DDO from a thumb drive - Turdbine has ensured that DDO is ruined no matter what medium you run it from.
YW.

OldCoaly wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:02pm:
Not as old as my oldest underwear, but still pretty far from new.  Smiley

Can we keep this on a need to know basis?
Up till this point, you were doing great with all that nostalgic talk of PCI buses & bandwidth, chipsets, Windows use of RAM and framerate monitoring.  It sent shivers down my spine - good times.
And then you brought in the derps....   Sad


archon wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 11:48am:
2. See if you can get away with killing the "awesomium" processes when ddo starts.  I used to, but I don't think you can anymore... the last time I tried it took down the game client also.


Awesomium - that's the little buggers I was trying to remember.
Yes, they used to crash the client, but it looks like it is ok now.  Someone at Turdbine figured at how to program the DDO store virus software so it doesn't crash the main DDO program.  GJ.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #32 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 11:08pm
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DropBear wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 8:08pm:
It sent shivers down my spine - good times.

And then you brought in the derps....   


I try to keep things in balance.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #33 - Jul 28th, 2015 at 7:14am
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kum-gulp wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:44pm:
will look after food if no-one else has named it.

I didn't eat that whole time.

It was Environment Stencil Shadows, iirc. Used to cause intermittent pausing in odd areas of the game for me. Now runs fine as expected on hardware of this power.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #34 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 5:02am
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Frill Distance Disabled?
  

Build links
Endgame Gear Guide
Cannith Crafting Planner link

Warning: May contain outdated cultural depictions.
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #35 - Aug 1st, 2015 at 1:37pm
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move to an SSD from HDD if you really feel like you should have to dump money on hardware to play this piece of shit game. I had similar issues, getting worse with each update and changing to ssd fixed it.

The rest of your hardware is fine, I would go with more RAM, but that's me. You're bottle necking on your hard drive.
There are far better reasons to run SSD than just ddo.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #36 - Sep 29th, 2015 at 8:31pm
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I believe (but have no data on it) that the 3 or 4 recent updates have increased the overall graphic texture size. 

I've got an AMD Radeon HD 6670, but only with 1 GB of vid memory.  Recently, I've noticed that if the Texture Cache Size isn't set below .75, I start banging the top of my graphics memory (viewable in Process Explorer).  Jumping into a new zone or just walking into an area with different textures would peg my system - but not CPU or Memory or Disk.  (Rig is 4 proc, 8 GB).

I do remember checking this a couple of years ago, and would never see my GPU memory above 70 or 80%, but without changing the cache size, I constantly see it at 100%. 

The interesting thing is that I've got my CPU fan tied to the CPU output, and when I'm lagging, I can hear the fan slow down indicating that something other than CPU is being maxed.

Would have to check with a vid card with more memory, but not on the roadmap.

  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #37 - Sep 30th, 2015 at 1:36am
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OldCoaly wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:02pm:
Not as old as my oldest underwear, but still pretty far from new.

DropBear wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 8:08pm:
Can we keep this on a need to know basis?

What did you think his screen name referred to?
  

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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #38 - Sep 30th, 2015 at 7:22am
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Revaulting wrote on Sep 30th, 2015 at 1:36am:
What did you think his screen name referred to?


Maybe he's a former coal miner.......    Huh

Or he used to shovel the coal into the furnace on steam trains?    Huh
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #39 - Sep 30th, 2015 at 9:42am
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DropBear wrote on Sep 30th, 2015 at 7:22am:
Maybe he's a former coal miner.......   

Or he used to shovel the coal into the furnace on steam trains?   

You're getting pretty sophisticated with your innuendo.
  

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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #40 - Oct 5th, 2015 at 7:06pm
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Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going! Or how much useful information it contains!

Anyway, long story short, the DX9 change fixed it for me, but I stopped playing again. I think I've just gotten back into it, though, and am probably going to try running off an SDHC or thumb drive just because it sounds neat!

I'd never buy an SSD, though. They may be reliable in the sense that they don't fail randomly, but they wear out crazily fast(a year, give or take, some friends had there's fail in ~ 9 months). While I haven't lately had a much better track record with physical drives, I can typically get 2-3 years out of them, longer, depending on how many fucks I have to give about the machine it's in(I've actually got some 10+ year old mechanical drives still trucking).
  

I'll never understand the propensity of people to brag about being good at a video game. Its a toy you play with for fun. The only person who should be proud of you is your mother. If you're 3.
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #41 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 1:00am
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noamineo wrote on Oct 5th, 2015 at 7:06pm:
thumb drive


If you have usb 3.0 ports on your PC, get the same usb stick, it's the only reason why thumb drives are suggested in the first place.

noamineo wrote on Oct 5th, 2015 at 7:06pm:
I'd never buy an SSD, though.


Do you have anyone who has an experience with Hybrid SSDs?
  

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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #42 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 1:58am
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noamineo wrote on Oct 5th, 2015 at 7:06pm:
Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going! Or how much useful information it contains!

Anyway, long story short, the DX9 change fixed it for me, but I stopped playing again. I think I've just gotten back into it, though, and am probably going to try running off an SDHC or thumb drive just because it sounds neat!

I'd never buy an SSD, though. They may be reliable in the sense that they don't fail randomly, but they wear out crazily fast(a year, give or take, some friends had there's fail in ~ 9 months). While I haven't lately had a much better track record with physical drives, I can typically get 2-3 years out of them, longer, depending on how many fucks I have to give about the machine it's in(I've actually got some 10+ year old mechanical drives still trucking).


I'd suggest not putting your page/swap file on your SSD.
The thrashing can chew thru the finite read/write cycles quickly.
Were they running TRIM enabled SSD's?

For my main, I run with an SSD for the OS and some software like DDO that benefits from read/write access.
The rest (like Microsoft bloatware) I put on a mechanical drive where speed is less important, but reliability is.

For my laptop, I went with a 32GB USB3 and copied DDO onto it and have never looked back.
USB3 sticks are cheap and simple.  Only caveat is you need a reasonably modern machine with USB3 ports to get this benefit.

  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #43 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 5:06am
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DropBear wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 1:58am:
For my main, I run with an SSD for the OS and some software like DDO that benefits from read/write access.
The rest (like Microsoft bloatware) I put on a mechanical drive where speed is less important, but reliability is.


Really, most of the modern ones aren't that bad any more. You will lose a little capacity with time, but the fail-protection is pretty good. I picked up a 250GB Samsung EVO 850 a couple months ago. The warranty is 10 years on them, and as long as you follow a couple of basic precautions they will last that long. Even my crappy 64GB Sandisk boot drive that I bought in 2008 lasted until this year, and the reliability was much lower back then. This is quite a good guide to getting the most out of your SSD. Seriously, Having an SSD has changed my life, they're amazing. It's one of the things I have never regretted, and I would actively complain if my work PC did not have an SSD on now (Java software engineer, it's made running big Maven builds soooooo much less painful).
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #44 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 6:57am
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totally wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 5:06am:
I picked up a 250GB Samsung EVO 850 a couple months ago.


Right pick.
I have a Samsung 840 PRO 256GB SSD for 2 years now and I'm using it as my main drive without any problems.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #45 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 4:06pm
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I thought the wear worries about SSDs were old news. AFAIK newer drives last as long as mechanical, and I hear nothing but positive reports on comparison to mechanical drives from people I know in the repair and use end of things.

Personal experience: I bought one early, they were a bit crap. I've bought one more recently, they're not a pain or crap if you buy the good ones.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #46 - Oct 6th, 2015 at 6:25pm
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kum-gulp wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 4:06pm:
I thought the wear worries about SSDs were old news. AFAIK newer drives last as long as mechanical


They last at least as long and probably longer.

noamineo wrote on Oct 5th, 2015 at 7:06pm:
I'd never buy an SSD, though. They may be reliable in the sense that they don't fail randomly, but they wear out crazily fast(a year, give or take, some friends had there's fail in ~ 9 months). While I haven't lately had a much better track record with physical drives, I can typically get 2-3 years out of them, longer, depending on how many fucks I have to give about the machine it's in(I've actually got some 10+ year old mechanical drives still trucking).


One person's failure within 9 months is pretty far from being representative of the population.

For the past three generations, SSDs in general have been very reliable and very long lived.  It's been more than 5 years since reliability was a valid concern for SSDs.

Some brands and product lines within brands are more reliable than others with Intel generally being the most reliable and Intel's server line being the most most reliable.  The difference in reliability between the top brands (Intel, Samsung, Crucial, Micron, OCZ, etc.) is small enough to make them substitutable for each other for most applications.

There are web pages that suggest that SSDs won't tolerate frequent and sustained writes "because it'll wear our the electronics", however these articles are written before 2011 or lack any cited sources (that's code for "they're unsubstantiated opinion"). 

The articles that cite actual testing, objective metrics such as rates of return, or in the case of TechReport.Com perform actual 18 month long endurance test themselves indicate that SSDs will outlast manufacturers' estimated lifetimes not merely by "significant margins", but by multiples.

Quote:
All of the drives surpassed their official endurance specifications by writing hundreds of terabytes without issue. Delivering on the manufacturer-guaranteed write tolerance wouldn't normally be cause for celebration, but the scale makes this achievement important. Most PC users, myself included, write no more than a few terabytes per year. Even 100TB is far more endurance than the typical consumer needs.


I keep my mechanical drives spinning 24x7 throughout their life (server with 18 drives (boot mirror and 2x 8drive raid-5)). 
They usually live a bit longer than their 5 year warranties, and I find that when one fails, the others within the same array follow within a year. 

If you're only getting 3 years out of your mechanical drives, you might look for environmental influences that are shortening their lives.

If you've for a 10 year old drive "that's still trucking along" you should probably give some serious consideration to moving that machine's task to a VM on contemporary hardware.  Abstracting the OS from the hardware will make it much easier to keep the role that machine performs going as hardware continues to evolve.


DropBear wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 1:58am:
I went with a 32GB USB3 and copied DDO onto it and have never looked back.
USB3 sticks are cheap and simple.  Only caveat is you need a reasonably modern machine with USB3 ports to get this benefit.

USB3 is much faster than USB2, but for DDO USB2 is fast enough to provide a significant improvement over mechanical hard drives because DDO's bottleneck in most cases is random access time, not transfer rate.

Don't deny yourself faster instance changes because you "only have USB2".
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #47 - Oct 7th, 2015 at 9:16am
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kum-gulp wrote on Oct 6th, 2015 at 4:06pm:
I thought the wear worries about SSDs were old news. AFAIK newer drives last as long as mechanical, and I hear nothing but positive reports on comparison to mechanical drives from people I know in the repair and use end of things.

Personal experience: I bought one early, they were a bit crap. I've bought one more recently, they're not a pain or crap if you buy the good ones.

There are still crap ones out there, look at reviews for the specific model. I got a hybrid on my new laptop last year, and it benchmarks slower than my 10k rpm mechanical! I thought I was safe running with Lenovo's pick, but when I was trying to figure out why my new laptop ran slower than the 2 year old one it was replacing, I discovered that this model SSD was far below others of the same type.
  

Turdbin, keep changing the DDO rules, because McDonalds sold over 200 billion hamburgers by changing the recipe for their Special Sauce every couple of months to keep interest up.
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #48 - Oct 7th, 2015 at 9:45am
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Agreed. People who don't read up on pretty much anything before buying these days, what with the plethora of good info on the web, are missing a trick.
  
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Re: Game really twitchy/not smooth
Reply #49 - Oct 7th, 2015 at 7:19pm
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When I run DDO from a stick, the "Full (Windowed)" mode drops to half my screen size.

I copied the DDO folder straight over. What did I miss?
  

Silence is golden, but I only get silver rolls.
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