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Very Hot Topic (More than 75 Replies) 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks! (Read 32776 times)
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #75 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 12:14pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
Basically most systems in DDO are much, much simpler than you think.   This is most likely to keep things flowing on the back end.

When you enter a dungeon, it takes a snapshot of your character and then places you somewhere along a pre-designed curve that is based on the level of the dungeon and the difficulty.

A good example is spell DC's.   If you enter ELite, for example, it basically compares to a checklist of all the things they've determined that a character should have if they think they can do Elite.  (Spell Focus, School DC Item bonus, what your casting stat is vs what it could be if you had everything possible for that level, etc.

It is then further broken down into 3 mob types i.e. reflex, will and fort (quick, tough, caster etc)

Basically rather than each time you go to cast a spell against a certain enemy and it rolling a saving throw, it rather most likely gives you a caster rating, factors in whether you are casting an "approrpirate spell" against that enemy type and then most likely comes up with a much much simpler formula to see if your spell lands... so rather than it being based on a D20 die roll plus a monsters save bonus taken against your actual DC, its most likely more like a 4 or 6 tier system that is based on your calculated 'caster rating' taken against whether you casted an appropriate spell against that type of monster.

So when you enter a dungeon, once your caster rating has been determined you basically fall into 1 of maybe 4 or 5 catagories for landing your spells.. either you do not qualify because you are completely out of range in which case you will never land anything, you fall into rating 1 where you land say 25% of the time, 2 for 50% of the time, 3 for 75% of the time or 4 where you always land that spell (against that mob type).    Casting the wrong spell against a mob type (i.e. casting  reflex based spell against an "agile" class enemy probably bumps you 1 or 2 ratings down.

I am guessing that AC most likely works very similarly.   There is most likely a viable AC range for each dungeon/difficulty... like viable AC range 100-116.   If your AC is below 100 you will get hit 100% of the time (assuming 0 dodge/blur etc), if its over 116 you will most likely avoid all hits (it might cap out at 90%)

As per the argument in this thread, what I am saying is that they are most likely coming up with a different formula and weighing AC differently in Hard and Elite.   In Hard they are basicalllly willing to accommodate 95% of the DDO population, which is what you mostly see in these forums, i.e people who think they know what they're doing and have a handle on things (i.e. "displacement is your friend, don't bother with AC").   But on Epic Elite (or LE etc) they are most likely looking at whether you dumped AC or not and if you did, making your defense chance over all suffer.

Moral to the story is what they are telling you is going on is not whats going on.   



Hey, dipshit.

126 AC ~ 5 % miss chance in EE/LE content.

Go figure.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #76 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 12:43pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
[much rubbish snipped]
Moral to the story is what they are telling you is going on is not whats going on. 


Of all the shit you've posted, this is the only thing you've almost got right.  Not because of your decade of carefully studying the intricacies of DDO mechanics, but because "stopped clock is right twice a day".


You didn't understand to-hit and AC mechanics before the armor class pass and you don't understand them now.

Those mechanisms have been exhaustively reverse engineered and thoroughly documented by people who love solving those puzzles, and their documentation doesn't include words/phrases such as "somewhere along", "basically compares", "I am guessing", "most likely", etc.

Go study the wiki, learn to use the tool that captures the combat log and how to parse it, learn to use a scripting tool to automate testing, then come back and be an asshole with actual information to share.

It won't be better than what's already been done, but at least you'll have learned something.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Reply #77 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 1:53pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
[snip]



You know everything is a given dungeon can be dug out from the files... It's Fixed, set in stone ( well bits ) and cannot be tweaked.
Normal will trigger the normal scripts of a given dungeon ( and spawn the normal mob )
Hard will trigger the hard scripts of a given dungeon ( and spawn the hard mob )
Elite will trigger the elite scripts of a given dungeon ( and spawn the elite scripts )

There is no snapshot, there is checking if the character can handle it and adaptation. Things are fixed.
The only scaling that occurs is tied to how many people are in the instace at the time of spawn... It's called Dungeon Scalling and it's one of the retarded 'solo friendly' mechanism that should have been killed long ago.


Get a clue... Learn the files... The information to learn about it is available here in The Vault... I'm not even good at it, but I managed to understand a few things... Rodrak was the master of the files.

  

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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #78 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 1:54pm
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OldCoaly wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 12:43pm:
Of all the shit you've posted, this is the only thing you've almost got right.  Not because of your decade of carefully studying the intricacies of DDO mechanics, but because "stopped clock is right twice a day".


You didn't understand to-hit and AC mechanics before the armor class pass and you don't understand them now.

Those mechanisms have been exhaustively reverse engineered and thoroughly documented by people who love solving those puzzles, and their documentation doesn't include words/phrases such as "somewhere along", "basically compares", "I am guessing", "most likely", etc.

Go study the wiki, learn to use the tool that captures the combat log and how to parse it, learn to use a scripting tool to automate testing, then come back and be an asshole with actual information to share.

It won't be better than what's already been done, but at least you'll have learned something.


Here's simple proof that your wrong.   Stuff will not land if you fall under the range.   If everything was being done as according to a D20 system as you believe and as they are telling you, there would be a much higher variation in the results.   Playing 10 years, I can tell you... I'm right your wrong.   Reverse engineer the log all you want.. if anyone would have actually done that they would have actually found instances where enemies would have made low rolls on their saving throws and you actually landed stuff (as in yes you will land a spell when they roll a 1, 2, or 3.    But in all the 10 years Ive played and the 100's of thousands of spells I've casted, I can tell you that has never happened.  Your either in range or your  out of range. 
A) Everything is done with "ranges"
B) You are rated as according to those ranges and within those ranges.. there are a maximum of most likely 4-5 ratings, either your out of range (you fall below) in which case you will NEVER land anything, you are rated within the range, or you are rated beyond the range.

If you were right and I was wrong, you could fall below the range and still land a spell now and then, which I can tell you after  10 years and 100's of thousands of spells, doesn't happen.


  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #79 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 2:09pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 1:54pm:
Here's simple proof that your wrong.   Stuff will not land if you fall under the range.   If everything was being done as according to a D20 system as you believe and as they are telling you, there would be a much higher variation in the results.   Playing 10 years, I can tell you... I'm right your wrong.   Reverse engineer the log all you want.. if anyone would have actually done that they would have actually found instances where enemies would have made low rolls on their saving throws and you actually landed stuff (as in yes you will land a spell when they roll a 1, 2, or 3.    But in all the 10 years Ive played and the 100's of thousands of spells I've casted, I can tell you that has never happened.  Your either in range or your  out of range. 
A) Everything is done with "ranges"
B) You are rated as according to those ranges and within those ranges.. there are a maximum of most likely 4-5 ratings, either your out of range (you fall below) in which case you will NEVER land anything, you are rated within the range, or you are rated beyond the range.

If you were right and I was wrong, you could fall below the range and still land a spell now and then, which I can tell you after  10 years and 100's of thousands of spells, doesn't happen.




Real question is why I'm even bothering to argue with any of you.   Most of you have a tiny fraction of my experience... the vast majority of what you think is your "knowledge" of the game comes from starting the game when TR came out at which time I had already capped and deleted around 60 characters.    You then went around a few times with your character at which point the inflation and stink started to develop within you.  Rather than bow to my acquiescence and shown proper respect, the false perception of others having seen your same character going through a few lives actually began to have an effect on you and alter *your* own perceptions of yourself.  Rather than see yourself as the small insignificant peon that you are, the distorted lense that you have created by TR'ing now makes you actually believe that you can compare yourself to me. 

The result is the ridiculous shit you are seeing here, ie.. you yammering on about combat logs and reverse engineering.   I think we are all just relieved we dont have to hear this shit in voice chat.


  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #80 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 2:33pm
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #81 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 3:13pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 2:09pm:
I think we are all just relieved we dont have to hear this shit in voice chat.

This is true. 

The clock was correct twice in the same day.

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 2:09pm:
... Most of you have a tiny fraction of my experience... the vast majority of what you think is your "knowledge" of the game comes from starting the game when TR came out at which time I had already capped and deleted around 60 characters.... 


Same shit you spewed 6 years ago.  I mean, nearly verbatim.  It's almost copypasta.

It's as though in 2010 (or earlier, I'm not going to dig that hard to rub your nose in it) you had a vision (unsupported by any data collection or testing) of how you think things work and it imprinted indelibly in your noggin, never mind pesky details such as the AC pass or before that how it was empirically proven that "get hit only on a 20" was an achievable goal.

You've been trotting out the same shit for more than six years.  It's comical.


Next I expect you to start explaining how your 245hp Rogue was more than enough for Elite Shroud back in the days before TRs and epic destinies, and how people with 600+ HP were gimp.

  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #82 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 3:34pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 9:04am:
the game has nothing to do with numbers.

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:03am:
What it does is computes

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:03am:
what I believe was (and possibly still is) something to the effect of a 25%/50%/75%/100% system.

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:03am:
I am guessing

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:03am:
probably a 16 point system

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:03am:
Willing to bet dollars to donuts that they have probably taken that system (most likely on a 16 point range now) and then composited it with blur /ghostly, dodge etc.

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:46am:
In the background things are most likely calculated quite differently

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:46am:
once this is calculated, it is most likely weighted

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 22nd, 2016 at 12:28pm:
I am still willing to bet that trash follows a much simpler rule

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 6:09am:
the system takes a rough composite of your character and then breaks it down

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 6:09am:
the system asks a few simple questions before creating a simple hit/defense matrix for your character

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 6:09am:
concerning trash mobs there are only 4 classes that you fall into as to whether you are getting hit or not.    It is probably more complex with ongoing fights with raid bosses, but with trash I can tell you it is a much much simpler system than you think it is and it is nothing like what you think you know.

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
When you enter a dungeon, it takes a snapshot of your character and then places you somewhere along a pre-designed curve that is based on the level of the dungeon and the difficulty

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
its most likely more like a 4 or 6 tier system that is based on your calculated 'caster rating'

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
I am guessing

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
There is most likely

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
what I am saying is that they are most likely coming up with a different formula and weighing

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
they are most likely looking at whether you
Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 1:54pm:
Here's simple proof that your wrong.   Stuff will not land if you fall under the range. 

Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 2:09pm:
Rather than bow to my acquiescence and shown proper respect, the false perception of others having seen your same character going through a few lives actually began to have an effect on you and alter *your* own perceptions of yourself.  Rather than see yourself as the small insignificant peon that you are, the distorted lense that you have created by TR'ing now makes you actually believe that you can compare yourself to me. 

The result is the ridiculous shit you are seeing here, ie.. you yammering on about combat logs and reverse engineering


I am confused. You state the game has nothing to do with numbers - then yet you state that everything is "calculated". Your factual proof is "most likely" and "I'm guessing" Your proof is in fact no proof at all.

Please, when you throw up an argument - use some logic, actual EVIDENCE and not your 10 year credential as your measuring stick.

Thank you for playing the game.
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2016 at 3:55pm by palmer01 »  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #83 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 4:19pm
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They guy has no clue what  he is talking about.  It is unclear if he even plays the game at this point.  Based on links to 2010 forum threads, he has been posting AC hate messages for 6 years now.

The one thing I do agree with is that AC is a part of the defensive tool kit of any character.  A 70 AC will give you some ability to avoid at least 1 hit in 10, even on the hardest content.  Ofc, AC cannot be the only defense you have.  You must combine it with dodge, blur, ghostly, displacement, incorp, PRR, MRR, and saves.

But a 70 AC is easy to accomplish at end game.  Even by accident on a pajama or robot caster.   
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #84 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:00pm
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So turns out I should have went elf because dragonmark displacement clickies.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #85 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:07pm
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Quote:
What kind of AC do I need for LE and what % of the time would I get hit from it?


2-2.5x mob CR seems to be a sweet spot (just my guess), but I bet you are lacking far more than just AC.

This is an example of a solid layered defense.

AC+Dodge+Displacement+On Hit CC+HP+Self Healing/TempHP+HAMP+Saves+PRR/MRR+Block Energy+Enough AoE damage to melt mobs = pull to red alert, turn around, and kill everything at once.

Or is it play an ES warlock with a shield, and pull to red alert? Some times I get confused.

Here's a thread on AC for you.
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:30pm by »  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #86 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:17pm
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So turns out I should have went elf because dragonmark displacement clickies.


Interesting.  I really like elves and my dex ranger is an elf, but to go elf you are giving up 1 feat from human and then spending a feat to get the dragonmark(so negative 2 feats total) and at least 12 AP.  On an AP starved build.  It also costs you human damage boost.  But it does get you 2-3 more dex than you can get with human.

But to be fair, I have put some AP in the Elf cores to get some extra dex on a dex ranger, so it's not 12 AP off a normal build.  It doesn't totally gimp your build.  But there is a cost.

It is more convenient than using actual shroud item clickies and such to get displacement.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #87 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:23pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:17pm:
Interesting.  I really like elves and my dex ranger is an elf, but to go elf you are giving up 1 feat from human and then spending a feat to get the dragonmark(so negative 2 feats total) and at least 12 AP.  On an AP starved build.  It also costs you human damage boost.  But it does get you 2-3 more dex than you can get with human.

But to be fair, I have put some AP in the Elf cores to get some extra dex on a dex ranger, so it's not 12 AP off a normal build.  It doesn't totally gimp your build.  But there is a cost.

It is more convenient than using actual shroud item clickies and such to get displacement.   


Scimitars are a better crit profile than khopeshes, and you get +4 damage and 3% doublestrike as elf. You lose a little base damage but I believe the crit profile makes for higher DPS. Using scimitars also means the human feat is basically null because you don't need khopesh proficiency.

You don't have to spend a ton more AP in elf than you would in human for damage boost, and healing amp. You would have 8 there anyways. The human build is probably higher DPS, given damage boost and more AP for sneak attack from DS (1.5x melee power affecting it currently). Human can afford killer and sneak attack from DS potentially, which is a lot of potential DPS.

It is still better to go STR based elf IMO. Str can get higher, and allows you to use stunning blow, along with it is difficult to fit a dex item into your gear with the way the RNG loot works.

I will be posting my STR based elf build that Dispel is dick riding soonTM. My gear is not done and a quick EE cabal first boss DPS test puts me a little above 6k DPS on non helpless mobs. I will probably end up around 7k DPS as a str based elven ranger, while maintaining a 95 DC stunning blow and 105 DC dire charge.
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:46pm by Sergod »  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #88 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 6:55pm
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Asheras wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 4:19pm:
A 70 AC will give you some ability to avoid at least 1 hit in 10, even on the hardest content. 


Citation needed.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #89 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 7:24pm
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Sergod wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 5:23pm:
Scimitars are a better crit profile than khopeshes...


just to nit pick a little

14-20/x3, 14 "extra hits"
16-20/x4, 15 "extra hits"

Without deepwood:
15-20/x3, 12 "extra hits"
17-20/x4, 12 "extra hits"
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2016 at 7:25pm by WonderfulFoppyBint »  

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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #90 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 9:17pm
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Bigjunk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 6:55pm:
Citation needed.

Looks like I misread the wiki chart.  an 80 is about what you need.

Last I checked, the trash in LE Spine and Shroud was CR 58 or so.  That equates to a 130 or so To-Hit. 

You can get there with minimal effort.  10 +18(armor) + 21 (martial PL) + 9 (dex) + 8 (nat armor augment) + 8 (protect augment) + 4 shield + 6 ships = 84.  All that took was some end game armor, 1 colorless slot and 2 blue slots.  No feats or enhancements included or actual items with parrying, awareness, nat armor, protect, dex, insight dex, etc.

With minimal gear and AP spend, even cloth casters can get around 90.  Which is enough for 6% miss chance against even with the toughest of tough mobs and 22% against typical LE trash.  Any melee level 30 should be able to hit 100-110 in light armor with no problem.  110 AC is a 36% miss chance for CR 60 mobs and 27% at the highest to-hits.   



  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #91 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 9:23pm
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 6:09am:
Ah, another gullible imbecile blathering away like you understand the game.  You may want to make a new completionist toon as you apparently missed everything the first time around.  Or maybe swallowing all those loads from your guild leader who also thought he knew what he was doing somehow clouded your judgtement.

First of all let me put your in your place.  I capped around 60 characters before you started your little TR queer quest to go around and around to try to get people to recognize you with your single character.

I am the one who taught the stuff to the people who taught you.   I know better than you, by a long long ways.  Period.

Let me explain again how it works since the first time you apparently didn't get it.

All the numbers you see on your character sheet?  Meaningless.   Oh there is some meaning to it but nothing close to what you think it is.

I'll say it again for the borderline retarded like this guy (bigjunk), the system takes a rough composite of your character and then breaks it down into some much much simpler than you think.

I have played the game since 2006, believe me, I know much much much more than you do.   Almost everything that you were taught (since you never came up with anything on your own, I was the one who innovated years before the people who taught you found out about it.

Anyway as I was saying, the system asks a few simple questions before creating a simple hit/defense matrix for your character.   Did you try to maintain an AC that is adequate for the level and difficult that your doing? Or did you go the way of the stupid dumb  DDO Vault fuck and dump AC and say something gay and retarded to the effect of "blur" displacement" ghostly is your friend" As if you had some semblance of what was going on in the game.   This is why your defense tanks.  Becuase your a stupid fuck who can't stop mouthing off like you know what your doing.

This is the reason why you can get away with EH with dumping AC and going w/ blur/displacement/ghostly/dodge etc.   Becuase EH and EE create your hit/defense matrix differently.    On EE if you dumped AC it will tank your chance to defend. 

Believe me, concerning trash mobs there are only 4 classes that you fall into as to whether you are getting hit or not.    It is probably more complex with ongoing fights with raid bosses, but with trash I can tell you it is a much much simpler system than you think it is and it is nothing like what you think you know.  So accept that your  a fucking idiot and move on.
EDIT:  Oh and Bigjunk, I'm sorry if you took offense to anything I said, it wasn't meant to be offensive.


Damn, you one dumb motherfucker. If you think this game requires any skill to play, you are the algae on the gene pool.

I played circles around dumbasses like you in 2010, and still play circles around you tards now.

@Sergod: I have a dex tempest at the moment, but will probably swap back to STR at some point. Not much of a boost in survivability. Basically all it allows you to do is drop those points from the improved evasion enhancement.
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2016 at 9:24pm by Rastelin »  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #92 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 9:47pm
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Rastelin wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 9:23pm:
If you think this game requires any skill to play, you are the algae on the gene pool.


So much this.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #93 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 12:28am
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:34am:
~snip~


So here's a question for you then. Is this "snapshot" system dynamic in the sense it takes snapshots every now and then or is it static where upon it only takes a snapshot when you enter the quest?
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #94 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 3:07am
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Asheras wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 9:17pm:
Looks like I misread the wiki chart.  an 80 is about what you need.

Last I checked, the trash in LE Spine and Shroud was CR 58 or so.  That equates to a 130 or so To-Hit. 

You can get there with minimal effort.  10 +18(armor) + 21 (martial PL) + 9 (dex) + 8 (nat armor augment) + 8 (protect augment) + 4 shield + 6 ships = 84.  All that took was some end game armor, 1 colorless slot and 2 blue slots.  No feats or enhancements included or actual items with parrying, awareness, nat armor, protect, dex, insight dex, etc.

With minimal gear and AP spend, even cloth casters can get around 90.  Which is enough for 6% miss chance against even with the toughest of tough mobs and 22% against typical LE trash.  Any melee level 30 should be able to hit 100-110 in light armor with no problem.  110 AC is a 36% miss chance for CR 60 mobs and 27% at the highest to-hits.   





21 from Martial PL's is minimal effort?
The average player should have 9 epic PL's in martial to get 18 AC?  That's only 70+ million XP nowadays?  Minimal effort?  One weekend's work?

I'll go with you on the other statements, but that is stretching it a little too far sorry!

Edit: sorry about the Franclamation mark, it just snuck in there, I didn't mean it.
« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2016 at 3:08am by PersonaNonGrata »  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #95 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 7:27am
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Most builds on these forums assume completionist and triple epic completionist and +7 tomes for all stats.   If you aren't there then your character is still a work in progress.   But when talking about whether a specific feature is viable or not at end game we have to discuss a finished character from an xp grind perspective.   There is no point in discussing a first life character.   They are clearly going to be underpowered significantly.    Setting your measuring point at some arbitrary level between first life and last adds confusion and a variable to calculations that make comparisons more difficult.    It is easier to do all math on a completed character and let everyone subtract their own specific situation from there.   Otherwise everything is apples and oranges.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #96 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 7:32am
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PersonaNonGrata wrote on Feb 24th, 2016 at 3:07am:
21 from Martial PL's is minimal effort?
The average player should have 9 epic PL's in martial to get 18 AC?  That's only 70+ million XP nowadays?  Minimal effort?  One weekend's work?

I'll go with you on the other statements, but that is stretching it a little too far sorry!

Edit: sorry about the Franclamation mark, it just snuck in there, I didn't mean it.


Oh. Also on this point, epic pls have been out for 2 and a half years.   That is around 30 months.   1 epic pl per month is not unrealistic, even for a relatively casual player.   (Say 20 hours per pl).  If you focus on more than one character or haven't been working on eps or play less than 20 hours a month then you won't be nearing the end of your grind but a good number of players, especially on these forums, are).  But again, it's more about consistency for comparisons and discussion than a statement that everyone needs to be there.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #97 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 7:39am
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Asheras wrote on Feb 24th, 2016 at 7:27am:
It is easier to do all math on a completed character and let everyone subtract their own specific situation from there. 

or do all the math on a character without 36 epic lives, 42 heroic, 12 iconic and let everyone add their own specific situation from there.
  

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I don't think naming names would be a good thing for me to do, but I'd pretty much add anyone who's a know-it-all dick on the list.� Even if they are sometimes intelligent with their opinions, the way they state them in long, "i'm a lawyer at trial"-type posts makes me want to punch them in the face.� They act like whiney babies with god complexes and then freak out if someone so much as breathes criticism in their direction.
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #98 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 7:49am
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Daggertooth wrote on Feb 23rd, 2016 at 1:54pm:
proof

That word doesn't mean what you think it means. Shut up, simpleton.
  
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Re: 20 Ranger Tempest Sucks!
Reply #99 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 8:08am
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Rubbinns wrote on Feb 24th, 2016 at 7:39am:
or do all the math on a character without 36 epic lives, 42 heroic, 12 iconic and let everyone add their own specific situation from there.


Showing what is possible allows the reader to perform their own gap analysis and evaluate the relative value of effort to close that gap.

It's generally better to provide a target than not.
  

Groo The Wanderer wrote on Sep 8th, 2013 at 10:43pm:
they will probably congratulate themselves on how long they "kept it going" never able to see that it could have easily managed to keep itself going for far longer if they had just meddled far less drastically and with some semblance of an actual gameplan.
Darth Anonymous wrote on Feb 1st, 2014 at 1:11pm:
Hearing something has "merit" but we don't have "time" kind of says everything about how Turbine works on things.
eighnuss wrote on May 27th, 2014 at 12:52pm:
everyone but turbine knows that we are sad they are destroying our game
majmalphunktion wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 12:12am:
I don't make the game, I just get tested what they build. Sorry you are not happy.
Skoodge wrote on Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:54am:
DDO is easy to summarize - the greatest game to suck the most ass.
GooFY wrote on Mar 2nd, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Turbine - So incompetent that we are skeptical when they report their own incompetence.  
Meursault wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:10pm:
Other companies will settle for shitting out garbage, Turdbin actually prefers to. Especially if they can get us to buy it, that just cracks them up.
Meursault wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Breaking something and putting it back together isn't as good as not breaking it to begin with, it's not even close.
palmer01 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 9:05am:
Devs do not care what players want - they already have an agenda and give out token gestures so the paladins can feel worthy.
PersonaNonGrata wrote on Oct 4th, 2016 at 1:24am:
The DDO devs aren't motivated by a positive user experience.

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